UC MBA — BS Not OK
	found on CNN written by Adipic Acid, edited by George (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Fri 21 Mar 11:35am
		Adipic Acid writes "The University of California at Berkeley has started fact-checking MBA program applications. They've already rejected several applicants for falsifying their work histories, principally by shortening the time they've been out of work or by giving themselves false promotions. This follows on the heels of the Wharton School charging an extra $35 to hire an outside firm to check the veracity of all of its applicants. "Will measures like this truly help produce more ethical business leaders? By the way, neither school takes the same care in vetting the resumes of their faculty."

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show almost all: 20 commentsbest: 2 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

4.  Telling Tales During The Interview   by Robotic Cat       at Fri 21 Mar 12:30pm score of 0.5 irrelevant     For my MBA (completed September 2002), I had to provide any certificates for degrees or other academic qualifications plus written, sealed references from past employers. Also, part of the application process was providing essays on topics provided by the University, one of which was to write about an ethical dilemma that had happened during my working life. During the interview the Professor had me talk about this essay. At the end of which he said, "Most people make up their story about an ethical dilemma and we like to see how inventive they have been !"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  Re: Telling Tales During The Interview   by Mike1024       at Fri 21 Mar 12:50pm score of 2 clever   in reply to comment 4     Hey, part of the application process was ... to write about an ethical dilemma that had happened during my working life ... "Most people make up their story about an ethical dilemma" You could write about the time you had to write about an ethical dilemma, but couldn't think of any meaningful example. So you had to decide whether or not you were going to falsify the information or fail to sufficiently complete the task. Dishonesty Yadda Yadda Failure Yadda Yadda Loose-loose Yadda Yadda outside-the-box solution Yadda Yadda Win-Win Yadda Yadda Synergistic Solution. Easy. Michael Whipped that shit out, and aint no doubt about it; It hit the ground and caused an earthquake and power outage.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  It's the Double Standard Thing   by Adipic Acid       at Fri 21 Mar 12:31pm score of 0.5 modappeal     That gets me. Applicants will be scrutinized, but Dr. I. M. Boring, PhD, Lit. D. could never have produced anything more significant than an Anonymous Idiot post on Plastic. Why shouldn't the people who are teaching ethics be held to the same ethical standard? No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Churchill   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Re: It's the Double Standard Thing   by hammurderer       at Fri 21 Mar 3:56pm score of 1   in reply to comment 5     I'm completely talking out of my ass here, but I would assume that a person doesn't just appear out of nowhere to teach an MBA course. I think that teachers would already be somewhat known, either from previous teaching experience or from business experience. Less scrutiny is required because more emphasis is placed on reputation. With an applicant, there is no reputation, and lying is quite easy given that nobody's heard of you anyway. Oh, and if anyone from Columbia reads this, I will swear to the veracity of my Masters application. For gods sake, let me in! I can't take the waiting any longer!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   21.  Re: It's the Double Standard Thing   by Adipic Acid       at Sat 22 Mar 9:20am score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 11     Well, I was overstating a bit for effect, but there have been cases of faculty inflating their CVs in the same ways that these applicants are inflating their applications. They become "principal researchers" on papers written by their grad students, claim degrees or professorships at institutions they only attended, etc. If you're going to hold your students to this standard (which is fair, in my book), you should also apply the same measures to faculty and other staff hires. We're not talking about the "superstar" faculty that everyone knows about here, but the Assistant Professor or Instructor who's hedged his or her bets a little bit to get hired, just like some of these MBA candidates have. No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Churchill   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

6.  What is new here?   by MonkeyBoy       at Fri 21 Mar 12:35pm score of 1.5 compelling     Most schools do a certain amount of checking on academic references (though for example Yale has let some unsavory cases slip through). I guess what is new here is that business experience is relevant to a MBA admission decision and that too much BS was slipping in. I see these steps more as trying to remove bogus admission information than an effort to make more ethical business types. I find it telling that the schools had to start doing this.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  Re: What is new here?   by Leamur67       at Fri 21 Mar 4:27pm score of 1.5 compelling   in reply to comment 6     I see these steps more as trying to remove bogus admission information than an effort to make more ethical business types. I agree, but it seems to me there's a much more self-serving reason for it than that. Yale does not have its own reputation on the basis of the ethical business types it turns out, it's reputation comes from turning out successful business executives. Garbage in, garbage out, Yale's got much more motivation than, say the College of Notre Dame of Maryland (check out the acronym — heh), to make sure who they take in isn't garbage. They're selling the club, not the courses, so they can really only afford to admit club-worthy students. I don't think club-worthy has a whole lot to do with ethics. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tell the truth. (Then run.)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   13.  Re: What is new here?   by Lemmy Caution       at Fri 21 Mar 6:37pm score of 1.5 astute   in reply to comment 12     Um, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Yale's School of Management is more well known for educating leaders in the not-for-profit and NGO sectors, not for traditional business leaders. Maybe you're talking about their undergrad program.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   16.  Re: What is new here?   by Eric Blair       at Fri 21 Mar 7:23pm score of 1   in reply to comment 13     Actually, only 6% of Yale's 2002 graduating class entered not-for-profit and NGO sectors.       The top employers were in the Financial Services area (43% of the class) Technology (19%), Consulting (18%), and Manufacturing (15%).       So the vast majority of Yale graduates end up as investment bankers, consultants, in a corporation as executives, etc. This is the "traditional business sector", so if Yale graduates rise to the top of their fields they will become "traditional business leaders."       According to the Wall Street Journal, Yale ranked #3 nationally in placement of its class in the Financial Services area and #5 nationally in placement of its graduates in the consulting are. Looks like the Yale School of Management is at least as well known for educating "traditional business leaders" as it is for educating leaders in the non-profit/NGO sectors.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   18.  WTF are you guys talking about?   by MonkeyBoy       at Fri 21 Mar 9:34pm score of 1.5 clever   in reply to comment 16     6. I made the point that checking academic credentials is common but not perfect, and gave 2 Yale links. Then I said that checking business credentials is new. 12. Leamur67 seems not to have read the links and thinks I said something about Yale turning out business types. 13. Lemmy Caution points out that Yale's SOM (School of Organization and Management) is not geared toward the private sector, and suggests that Leamur67 is bitching about Yale's undergraduate program. 16. Eric Blair quotes statistics from Yale's 2002 graduating class about their going into private business. Then he somehow mixes up graduating seniors with the grad students in the SOM and says: Looks like the Yale School of Management is at least as well known for educating "traditional business leaders" as it is for educating leaders in the non-profit/NGO sectors. So I have no idea of what you are talking about and I think neither do you.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   19.  Re: What is new here?   by Lemmy Caution       at Fri 21 Mar 10:39pm score of 1   in reply to comment 16     The SOM is definitely considered to be something different from a traditional business school, and what they teach is heavy on the ethics and values side. They don't even offer an MBA — SOM graduates earn an MPPM, a "Masters of Public and Private Management." Early in my career, I worked at an NGO largely managed by SOM grads.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  LSE   by Pravda       at Fri 21 Mar 1:15pm score of 1     For the London School of Economics, I had to provide academic proof of my degrees, among other things. They actually have really strict rules about transcripts and such — it could not touch my hands — it had to be sent directly from the school with a signature over the envelope seal. And for recs, they accepted electronic ones, but now my profs have to mail them actual signed hardcopies. Dunno how it is with other schools, though. Seen in the subQ: "For once I have to +Pravda. Scary. - Anonymouse Savant"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

10.  Re: LSE   by Anonymous Idiot       at Fri 21 Mar 1:33pm score of 0.5 modappeal   in reply to comment 8     LSE, pfft. That's a Party School of Economics.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   14.  LSE? You know what that stands for, right?   by coryb       at Fri 21 Mar 6:38pm score of 1 modappeal   in reply to comment 8     Let's See Europe!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   15.  Re: LSE? You know what that stands for, right?   by Pravda       at Fri 21 Mar 7:02pm score of 1 modappeal   in reply to comment 14     Why do you think I applied? Seen in the subQ: "For once I have to +Pravda. Scary. - Anonymouse Savant"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

22.  Think about it   by CelebratedMrK       at Sat 22 Mar 11:11am score of 3 astute     While financial statements love to remind us that past performance is no indication of future performance, there probably is some correlation between fudging the MBA application and fudging the general ledger. The world has become increasingly short-term success-oriented, just like Wall Street. Quarterly results are messed around with only to show consistency. MBA apps are "tweaked and tuned" till they produce the desired effect, viz., a highly impressed admission panel. Till every "component" (the MBA student, the school, the employer to name but a few) of the system understands the root of the problem, such checks and balances are probably necessary, if somewhat hypocritical.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

24.  Yes. Wait a minute...no.   by Radioactive Man       at Sun 23 Mar 9:09am score of 1     I could picture this idea working out for a short period of time. After a while, they start to turn to the thoughts of other people, such as "non-ethical" businessmen. This doesn't necessarily mean they would absorb these thoughts, but they have the potential to do so. "Are his ideas more effective?" "Well, it would bring in more money for little Timmy's operation." People, at least the nutty ones, can change their ideas like that. (See my fingers snapping?) My main question is how do they spot the "non-ethical" businessmen who don't lie on their work histories. Is there a lie detector involved? Never mind. I didn't read that part.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

27.  Re: Yes. Wait a minute...no.   by lennyelias       at Tue 25 Mar 7:56am score of 1   in reply to comment 24     My main question is how do they spot the "non-ethical" businessmen who don't lie on their work histories. Is there a lie detector involved? Yes, and it will be featured in the next round of IBM televisions commercials. The plan is to run it between spots for the "Business Genie" and "Business Reality Detector". Sarcasm is just one of the many complimentary services we offer...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

25.  BS Not OK???   by lennyelias       at Sun 23 Mar 9:36am score of 0.5 obnoxious     Wow! You mean it's not okay to lie to get ahead anymore? Hmmm... By the way, who will be the role models on the Republican and Democratic tickets in the next election? Sarcasm is just one of the many complimentary services we offer...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]