Lack Of Smack Means Jack — Drugs Amok Amongst Canucks
	found on The Globe and Mail written by That-Old-So-And-So, edited by Nick (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Mon 27 Jan 7:17pm
		"Vancouver has long had a reputation for heroin abuse, and the downtown East Side in particular has been singled out as one of the worst neighbourhoods in Canada. In a bid to curb drug abuse, Canada spends about 93% of its annual $500 million drug strategy money to try and intercept illicit drugs. On September 2, 2000, the Vancouver RCMP's Asian Organized Crime Unit conducted Canada's largest-ever heroin bust, seizing approximately 100 kg of uncut heroin. "Researchers in British Columbia took use of an ongoing study of HIV among heroin users to study the effect (link to full study) that the bust had on local drug users. Their observations? There was no difference in the proportion of participants who reported that law enforcement had affected their source of drugs, or the type of drugs available on the street. No differences in overall drug-use pattern, injection drug-use pattern, current heroin use, frequency of heroin injection, or frequency of cocaine injection. And the price? It went down. '...we did detect a statistically significant decrease in the per-point price of heroin, from a median of $20 before the seizure to a median of $16 after the seizure.' "So much for the value of big drug seizures. Maybe now Canada can move some of that $500 million from enforcement to treatment."

[ more plastic... ]    

show almost all: 31 commentsbest: 7 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

1.  drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by Pravda       at Mon 27 Jan 8:12pm score of 1     But you can bet Canada doesn't change their drug policies. The US simply won't let them (and Canadians, don't start getting self-righteous - fact is, the US will bitch and kick and scream if they try to change their interdiction policies until the government acquiesces), since Justice would be worried about high quality drugs coming south as well as north (not that it doesn't already, but in greater quantities). Which of the Democratic candidates supports reforming the drug laws? That's who I'll support. Seen in the subQ: "For once I have to +Pravda. Scary. - Anonymouse Savant"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by tdahnsn       at Mon 27 Jan 8:28pm score of 0.5 compelling   in reply to comment 1     "Which of the Democratic candidates supports reforming the drug laws? That's who I'll support." And now we understand why there will never be a two party system in America. We think of two sides, and those are the only ones that can ever really matter. It wasn't really always so. At one time there was just one party. During the revolution. There were only one sort of American, those supporting a weak confederation of colonies not a strong centralized federal government. Maybe our regional differences are all cancelling out our progress, in all sorts of endeavors. Maybe if we were just a weak confederation of states, regional differences wouldn't force us to the middle but to all sides. Maybe the north east coast would be more liberal and water rights issues could be sorted out out-west better if the north east didn't rely on the west to allow it to be as liberal and the west wasn't tied to the east to decide it's water issues. If you want liberty, first side with revolution! A break down of the central government must be undertaken. We must devolve all usurped powers of the states completely to the states. We must support and defend our constitution's intend best by ending it. It was the most powerful document of the 18th century, but now it's place is not as a holy text, but a historic one. We cannot afford any longer to view it as carved by the hands of god himself and all to be held all holy. We must serve not the word but the spirit and end the tyranny of literalists over the words of idealists. The argument of the constition as literal instruction is foolish at best, evil at worst. It cheapens the idealists who first set down those words to force them to be hated - forever hated - literalists. The very formulae laid out set with a process for change of the formulae, a self modifying document, and they dare attempt to tell us it is the intransient meaning of literalist interpretation that are to matter? Tear it all down. Burn it all up. Whatever it takes to find our spirit and revolt, revolt, revolt!!! Hmmm. Something tells me that the FBI will be calling soon. Why? What's the most callous thing you've said today?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   16.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by semonyenko       at Tue 28 Jan 10:28am score of 3 informative   in reply to comment 2     At one time there was just one party. During the revolution. There were only one sort of American, those supporting a weak confederation of colonies not a strong centralized federal government This statement shows an impressive ignorance of American history. During the period of the revolution, there was not 'just one party.' There were the revolutionaries (generally guestimated to be about 1/3 of the population), with plenty of divisions amongst themselves. There were the Tories (or Loyalists), i.e. those who wanted to stay with England (also generally estimated to be 1/3 of the population). The rest of the people were too busy trying to get on with their lives to care. The fighting between the revolutionaries and the Tories was intense and bitter, particularly in the South. Most of the atrocities of the war were the due to Loyalist-Revolutionary conflicts, not the Indians or the British Army. So much for only one sort of American. We must devolve all usurped powers of the states completely to the states Well, we tried that, and the result was a disaster. Washington called that form of government "little more than the shadow without the substance." Really, you should have some idea of what happened in the past before you suggest we all go running back to it. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't do or teach become school adminstrators.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   21.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by burntfriedman       at Tue 28 Jan 5:32pm score of 1   in reply to comment 2     Contrary to popular belief, the american revolution wasn't a widespread movement amongst the colonists. Even in the movie "Dazed and Confused", the history teacher is quick to point out that the revolution involved rich people who didn't want to pay taxes to the british, not the common man.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   20.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by tdahnsn       at Tue 28 Jan 2:54pm score of 1   in reply to comment 16     "This statement shows an impressive ignorance of American history." No, it shows the impressive ability to type well while completely stoned. But, thanks for playing! Why? What's the most callous thing you've said today?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   32.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by bitfiend       at Thu 30 Jan 11:45am score of 1   in reply to comment 21     Yeah, a bunch of rich men died at Lexington and Concord fighting the poor amicable British because they were greedy and didn't want to pay taxes. And the whole revolution was fought by just a few of those nasty dead white males who sought to enslave the following generations of Americans with the oppressive and irrelevant Bill Of Rights and Constitution. People who's understanding of the American Revolution comes from fictional history teachers in bad stoner movies forfeit their constitutional rights. (Who'd want 'em anyhow?) For real, man. Spiderman issue #76 says so. The militia that first resisted the British attempts to take away their guns were ordinary people On the 15 of April 1775, when General Thomas Gage, British Military Governor of Massachusetts, was ordered to destroy the rebel's military stores at Concord. To accomplish this he assembled the "Flanking units", including Light Infantry and Grenadiers, from his Boston Garrison. In charge he put Lieutenant Colonel Francis Smith and Marine Major John Pitcairn. He also composed a relief column under the command of Lord Hugh Percy to leave 6 hours after the main column. In an attempt at secrecy he did not tell his officers his plan until the last minute. The problem with his security measures were that Boston had become a glass fishbowl. All rebel eyes were watching to see the British' next action, and when the garrison committed to an action, the Americans knew their every move. At midnight on the 19th of April the British column, consisting of 650-900 troops left Boston, crossed the Charles River, followed closely by the alarm rider Paul Revere. As the British marched towards Concord, the entire countryside had been alerted to their presence, and rebel militia was deployed to meet them. Until this time there was no armed resistance to the British that had resulted in loss of British life. Several Months earlier, Gage had attempted to destroy miliary arms at Salem and met with resistance but no shots were fired, and the British retreated without completing their objective. Lexington Militia Captain John Parker had heard of the events at Salem, and collected his men on Lexington Green to face the British column. At dawn Smith's advanced parties under the command of Major Pitcairn, arrived at Lexington Green to see a group of armed Militia in formation across the Green. Pitcairn ordered the militia, led by John Parker, to be surrounded and disarmed. In response Parker ordered his men to disperse. Then a shot rang out. No one really knows who fired first, but the British, hearing the shot, fired upon the small group of militia, killing 8, and wounding 10 more. The militia then retreated into the woods to avoid the Briti sh fire. So started the first battle in the American Revolutionary War. "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."-George Orwell   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   36.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by burntfriedman       at Fri 31 Jan 3:34am score of 1   in reply to comment 32     big deal, you found a historical example removed from context. You should examine the roles of key players who got the militas organized and involved. If the american revolutionary idea was so truly profound it would have spread throughout the colonies. The british's new colony taken from france, quebec would have easily participated en masse.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   37.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by bitfiend       at Fri 31 Jan 4:52am score of 1   in reply to comment 36     Removed from context? You are mighty confused. It's all in context. (Actually dude-man, you aren't just confused, you are totally wrong.) I'd use bad stoner movies to illustrate my point if I could, but I'm going to have to stick with factual material. The militias existed since nearly the inception of the American colonies. They weren't a new concept AT ALL. They were ordinary folks. And they were already organized, and lots of them already rightfully hated the British. I won't argue that the people weren't stirred by the brilliantly distilled ideas of several unusual freethinking men, but the cause was freedom, individual rights, and self determination. Their economic status varied greatly,some were wealthy (before the war) some were poor, but what the hell does that matter anyhow? Were the American people duped by these rich men into freeing themselves from an oppressive overseas born-tyrant thief and his hired or press-ganged armies of murderers? Your totally ignorant, smug trivialization of the men who fought AND inspired the Revolution.... well, it makes me want to punch your face until all of your rotten teeth fall out of the holes where your ears used to be. But instead I'll just set you straight with a factual text-lashing. Was Thomas Paine a wealthy man who didn't want to pay taxes? Look here to find out what happened to these "rich men that didn't want to pay their taxes" as they fought their greedy war over taxes. Read it, brah-man-dude. Seriously. And there was nothing profound about the American Revolution? It inspired all those around the world that had the guts to put their asses on the line to abolish their BS monarchies and determine their own fate. (The French, for one...) Apparently some (ahem) weren't gutsy enough. Great ideas that require great sacrifice, only inspire great men to take the risks necessary to achieve the rewards.... You should shut your piehole and study up on American history a bit before you embarrass yourself further, dude-man. Put the honey bear bong down for a few days and read the Federalist papers and the Declaration of Independence, then come back and talk to me about it. I'll let Sammy here sum it up for me.... "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. "-Samuel Adams, brewer and patriot "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."-George Orwell   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   38.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by burntfriedman       at Fri 31 Jan 12:24pm score of 1   in reply to comment 37     "What kind of men were they? -Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists, eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated." well educated...lawyers, business men. Yup. RICH MEN. You don't even know what context means. Militia, of course, existed prior to the revolution. Who controled the militias? Who organized, supplied and gave the orders? Rich men. You have to remove the myth from the history.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   40.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by bitfiend       at Fri 31 Jan 7:59pm score of 1   in reply to comment 38     How's that saying go?....You can lead a moron to knowledge.... I give up. Go back to your Cheech and Chong movies. "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."-George Orwell   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   41.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by burntfriedman       at Sat 1 Feb 11:25am score of 1   in reply to comment 40     I'm glad you give up. Hopefully, you'll just go. Thanks for the cut and paste ideas of what "proof" is.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   42.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by bitfiend       at Sat 1 Feb 12:44pm score of 1   in reply to comment 41     And thank you for the fictional stoner movie American history lesson. Fool. "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."-George Orwell   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   43.  Re: drug interdiction doesn't work. Who knew?   by burntfriedman       at Sat 1 Feb 10:23pm score of 1   in reply to comment 42     sure, tit for tat, reference for reference. hopefully next time we will agree on something   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  In somewhat related news.   by LJ Gould       at Tue 28 Jan 1:16am score of 2 interesting     Meanwhile, in Ontario, the Court of Appeal ruled that police need to have a warrant before they can use infrared fly-bys to monitor your home. "Police must henceforth obtain search warrants for these flyovers, since the heat they measure may emanate from other private activities that generate surges of energy." The police argued that infrared devices used to detect growing operations only picks up heat escaping a house, and so does not violate privacy concerns. The court had a different opinion: The nature of the intrusiveness is subtle, but almost Orwellian in its theoretical capacity. Some perfectly innocent internal activities in the home can create the external emanations detected and measured by Forward Looking Infra-Red aerial cameras. Many of them, such as taking a bath or using lights at unusual hours, are intensely personal." I like the ruling. To the Court those guarantees to privacy set out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms are all about the level of access the authorities have, not how they go about it. Whether they search your home without a warrant or use new technology to avoid having to get a warrant to find out what's going on inside your house, doesn't make a difference -- it still violates your rights.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

18.  Thank God ...   by eminem enterprises       at Tue 28 Jan 1:50pm score of 1   in reply to comment 8     ... for Rosie Abella. I'm not her biggest fan (she tends to be very result-oriented in her legal reasoning) but she was the right judge at the right time to write this decision. And of course it mattered that the other panel members weren't the usual conservative rubber-stampers. Everybody has a share   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

19.  100 kg. whoop de doo.   by burntfriedman       at Tue 28 Jan 1:52pm score of 1     That's not even scratching the surface of drug use within the downtown east side(Main and Hastings) of Vancouver. Odds are that the shipment of heroin wasn't even intended to go there but probably somewhere else in Canada. This idea seems to be reinforced by the median price of a point dropping four dollars. Incidently, not even large numbers of people overdosing monthly, ever offset heroin usage in Vancouver. When I lived there, the china white, as they called it, was apparently the purest cut of heroin ever seen. 3-9 people would overdose at the beginning of the month, while the locals would vocally chastise the departed for being too greedy. I seriously think that legalizing it in that specific area would be better than letting it run rampant in the underground. They would certainly reduce the overdoses and the infections from Hep/Hiv.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

23.  caffeine bust in seattle, details at eleven   by orionoir       at Wed 29 Jan 7:18am score of 1   in reply to comment 19     Odds are that the shipment of heroin wasn't even intended to go there but probably somewhere else in Canada. This idea seems to be reinforced by the median price of a point dropping four dollars. heroin tends to be supplied by large cartels which are quite insulated from supply and demand pressures when it comes to setting price. other dominant suppliers such as debeers and opec tend to place longterm market share goals above optimum pricing strategies. a price drop of four canadian dollars more likely reflects a marketing response on the part of the distributors than it does an increase in supply. i'd be curious just how the heroin market works. do they saturate their customerbase with irresistibly priced come-ons which only later necessitate udder reliance on a single-source vendor? i wonder if this heroin thing has any possibly tie-ins with microsoft's outlook. i'm so happy i can't stop crying -- sting, fr. "lithium sunset"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   25.  Re: Vancouver Downtown Eastside - HURTING   by ejdopey       at Wed 29 Jan 4:47pm score of 2 interesting   in reply to comment 19     Just to touch on the Vancouver downtown eastside topic - I live on the corner of Abbott and Hastings [1 block away from main\Hastings] - also commonly referred to as the "armpit of humanity"... and the stereotype is true: 99% of all pedestrians on the streets are either buying crack\heroin or selling it. It is impossible to walk a city block in that area (at any time of the day\night) and not see someone injecting or (more commonly) smoking either heroin or crack right on the street - very often in front of squad cars. The fact of the matter is - nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is being done about it. Cops go by, without a care. Vancouver needs help- NOW. And its about time the Canadian Federal Government steps in - because the city is not dealing with its problem. Coincidentally - mind you - the Vancouver Downtown Eastside may very well be the safest place I have EVER lived. Although crackheadds are rampant and heroin junkies crawl about - I have never come accross any problem or ever been afraid for my life\security. I had the chance to live in Europe, Africa, the U.S, and Canada - and for god's sake I feel less secure in American Suburbs, or European Cities than in Vancouver. And that - is that. And the cat came back the very next day..... yaddy yadda...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   27.  Re: Vancouver Downtown Eastside - HURTING   by burntfriedman       at Wed 29 Jan 5:51pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     Coincidentally - mind you - the Vancouver Downtown Eastside may very well be the safest place I have EVER lived. Although crackheadds are rampant and heroin junkies crawl about - I have never come accross any problem or ever been afraid for my life\security. I too never felt personally threatened in the Eastside. I often remember someone saying: "Its not the drugs, the prostitution or the seedy hints of crime and violence but the pollution that bothers me." I think we should paint the lower Eastside like the shanties of south america. Clean up the garbage and brighten up the corners around the area...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   28.  Re: Vancouver Downtown Eastside - HURTING   by Conrad Bombora       at Wed 29 Jan 7:36pm score of 1.5 funny   in reply to comment 25     smoking either heroin or crack right on the street - very often in front of squad cars. The fact of the matter is - nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is being done about it. Cops go by, without a care. Now I know where "the kids in the hall" got some of there material. "Must be nice to hope for the thing you wish to want... Sure beats doing it." Strangers with Candy   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   39.  Re: Vancouver Downtown Eastside - HURTING   by luna bizarre       at Fri 31 Jan 5:16pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     You are right about it not being too bad down there most days...Gastown to the Victory Square area isn't too bad, but to be honest, I do not feel safe walking alone at night down past the Balmoral and the Ovaltine cafe area. I was chased by some creep the last time I ventured that way. I ended up running for blocks to get away from him. On the other hand, being alone in Kerrisdale at night is a lot more unnerving. If I had to scream for help, would anyone hear me? Sadly, maybe it's because I'm a chick, and for centuries we've been told "this is no place for a nice girl to be alone at night...it's dangerous!". ~The sleep of reason produces monsters~   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

22.  it's all in the math   by Conrad Bombora       at Tue 28 Jan 10:07pm score of 2 astute     Canada spends about 93% of its annual $500 million drug strategy money to try and intercept illicit drugs. Do the math... $500 million of drug strategy money VS a multi billion dolor a year industry. Who do you think is going to win? I'm certainly not saying throw more money at their interception policy. The money would indeed be put to better use helping people who want to kick. "Must be nice to hope for the thing you wish to want... Sure beats doing it." Strangers with Candy   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

24.  The perils of loosening up...   by Ernest Scribbler       at Wed 29 Jan 3:49pm score of 1.5 funny     Canada is a hotbed of marijuana production, especially in BC, where it's the most lucrative cash crop. Our attitudes are liberal with regard to legalization, especially for medicinal use. However, any moves in this direction risk our upsetting our biggest trading partner... Oh, I forgot, of course...all those grow houses are Al Qaeda cells. We just call them motorcycle gangs.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

35.  Four Pillars   by luna bizarre       at Thu 30 Jan 7:58pm score of 1     From many of the posters in this thread, I take it we are talking from the first hand experience of going down to Wastings and Pain (Hastings and Main) in the DTES (also the poorest postal code in Canada).       For all of you who have said that nothing is being done about the problem, have you forgotten that we have big plans for the Four Pillars Approach? For non-Vancouverites, the Four Pillars is a strategy dreamed up last year to help the city deal with the DTES addiction problem.       The Four Pillars, supported by our last mayor Phillip Owen, is going to be implemented by our new COPE coroner-turned mayor, Larry Campbell (DaVinci himself). "To deal with the health crisis of drug addiction in the Downtown Eastside (DTES), COPE will implement the Four-Pillars approach of treatment, enforcement, prevention and harm reduction."       With this approach, safe injection sites will be set up. Though there is plenty of controversy about this, I think it's about time. It won't fix the problem, but it will decrease transmission rates of HepC, HepB and HIV. Vancouver's HIV infection rate in the mid 90's were the highest in any developed nation. HepC transmission has soared to a 95% prevalence rate. Vancouver's Hep C infections account for nearly 1/4 of the national reported cases.It will also prevent OD's and allow that population of people to come into contact with people who genuinely care about their welfare. From then, it is hopefull many of them will get into treatment programs.       Since the mid 90's, HIV transmission rates have gone down but this could be attributed to crack being the drug of choice now. The boom in HIV during the 90's was in part caused by injectable coke being the drug of choice (coke supply was steady and cheaper than heroin back then, and needs to be injected far more often than heroin does in order to maintain a "high" - this lead to re-use and sharing of needles.)       Last fall, anti-drug nazi John Walters came to Vancouver to discuss tighter enforcement of drug laws and tougher security measures at the Canada-U.S. border. He also took opportunity to tell us that our Four Pillars approach was not the right thing to do and that safe injection sites were a waste of money. He said "I'm not telling Canadians what to do.But I'm saying, 'Look at our experience.Try not to have as many casualties as we do".       I believe Canada has learned from America's mistakes in their war on drugs. We are using real statistics to implement our policies on dealing with drug problems. ~The sleep of reason produces monsters~   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]