Dude, You're Getting A Protest!
	found on Computer Take Back Campaign written by stankow, edited by John (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Sun 12 Jan 7:28am
		"The Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas got a little of that protest action on Thursday when a bunch of prison-stripe-clad environmentalists picketed against Dell's computer recycling program. The protestors claim that the prisoners aren't given adequate protection from toxic materials in the computers; that Dell is taking work away from those few of us left on the outside; that Dell isn't making public the results of its recycling program; and that the program isn't doing enough anyway," stankow writes. "Dell's program is indeed via UNICOR, a U.S. government corporation that provides prison inmates to companies who need cheap labor but aren't quite ready to send the work out of the country. A Dell spokesman (no, not him) insisted that all OSHA standards are met, but admitted that Dell saves money by using prison labor.

	"As one observer put it, Dell's alternative to its current recycling program may well be to 'throw everything in a landfill. They don't care. They're all about the money.' Statistics indicate that only around 10 percent of obsolete computers are recycled despite the widespread availability of recycling programs. Can a greener computer company thrive in today's marketplace?"

[ more plastic... ]    

show almost all: 24 commentsbest: 5 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

1.  Quick Question   by Anonymous Idiot       at Sun 12 Jan 8:10am score of 1 intriguing     What do the other computer manufacturers do with theirs? Just curious.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

6.  Re: Quick Question   by TamLin       at Sun 12 Jan 9:19am score of 2 informative   in reply to comment 1     Whatever they want, pretty much, which is usually nothing. In the US, there's no requirement that computer companies have anything to do with whatever they sell once it's been sold to an end user. This is unlike Europe, where manufacturers of all sorts are responsible for the recycling of pretty much anything they sell. So at some level, Dell should be commended they're doing anything. At another, what they're actually doing is pretty scuzzy. "Oh, who am I kidding? The ramparts suck. They were sucky, sucky ramparts." - Stephen Colbert, The Daily Show   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   9.  Re: Quick Question   by musiquestar       at Sun 12 Jan 10:59am score of 2 informative   in reply to comment 6     Many just send it off to Asia and forget about it. I had the same conflicting feelings about Dell when I read the story. On a slightly off topic note (and I think I've posted this before) you can recycle your personal computer fairly easily; several places like homeless shelters and recreation programs will take them and put them to good use. Or Salvation Army / Kiwanis / Goodwill will do the same; if anything a 10 year old kid will have some fun with having their own computer, outdated as it may be. There does need to be a decent recycling program in place, though, with standards, and sooner the better. I have no idea who would begin to implement it, though. Your fantasies are unlikely, but beautiful.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   14.  Re: Quick Question   by dave78981       at Mon 13 Jan 12:28am score of 1.5 compelling   in reply to comment 6     What exactly is scuzzy about what they're doing? Is trying to the do the right thing in a way that's not going to cost them the farm a scuzzy thing to do? I guess it's using the cheap prison labor thing, right? Somehow, that doesn't bother me at all. It's better, or at least, no worse than prisoners sitting around all day or making license plates. Well, as I always say, a family of freaks is better than no family at all.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   10.  Sadly   by doomjesse       at Sun 12 Jan 2:26pm score of 1   in reply to comment 9     Many of the organizations you listed will no longer take computers. To upgrade them for their own use or to sell them would require more than they are worth, so many no longer take them.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   22.  Re: Quick Question   by snarkism       at Mon 13 Jan 6:48pm score of 1   in reply to comment 14     What exactly is scuzzy about what they're doing? they are making environmentally unfriendly computers, and then using prison labour to get rid of the problem. Dell falls near the bottom of environmentally responsible computer manufacturers. they are about the least-recyclable of all models. What they should be doing is minimising the amount of waste entering the environment in the first place, and encouraging reuse. Those are the other two R's in "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle". Recycling is much less important than the first two, yet it is what companies get the most positive PR from. In short, they should be doing a lot more. snarkism That's using your ass.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   28.  Re: Quick Question   by dave78981       at Tue 14 Jan 8:00pm score of 1   in reply to comment 22     What they should be doing is minimising the amount of waste entering the environment in the first place, and encouraging reuse. Well, actually what they should be doing is trying to make a profit. That's a company's sole goal. On the other hand, the government's role should be to regulate the businesses that exist by passing legislation that reigns them in. Can you really expect a business to limit its profits unless it's literally forced to? I can't. Well, as I always say, a family of freaks is better than no family at all.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   15.  Re: Quick Question   by BuddyLeeCU       at Mon 13 Jan 2:06am score of 1.5 compelling   in reply to comment 1     Dell is the best of the best for PC companies. They are, by only a fraction, the largest PC manufacturer. Dell has been incredibly smart about making components modular, creating cases that can be reused, and making computer components that snap in place rather than screw or sodder. Packing wise is equally effecient; my new laptop had the manual and such used as insulating packing material. The whole box was only slightly larger than the laptop itself. Other companies are a shoddy mix of similar policies. I think the reason Dell has come under fire is the fact they are active in pursuing economic policy, while others try to fly under the radar (although many are becoming proactive with the heat on Dell). If anyone is really having trouble getting rid of their old PC then you must be fucking retarded. Friends, family, public schools, private schools, local universities, community colleges, churches, local home brew computer store, etc etc etc. If your local school won't take it drive to the poorest part of town and find a public school there.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   23.  Re: Quick Question   by snarkism       at Mon 13 Jan 6:52pm score of 1   in reply to comment 15     Dell is the best of the best for PC companies. that's so wrong. What grounds do you have for saying this? They are, by only a fraction, the largest PC manufacturer. Dell has been incredibly smart about making components modular, creating cases that can be reused, and making computer components that snap in place rather than screw or sodder. Packing wise is equally effecient; my new laptop had the manual and such used as insulating packing material. The whole box was only slightly larger than the laptop itself. If they are so efficient, then why do they rate so poorly in recyclability and environmental factors for their products? they should take a leaf from Apple's book, who have compact and materials efficient machines in the first place. making more compact machines reduces all kinds of things - like pollution from shipping. the durability of them means they last a lot longer than Dell crap. people are still using 10 year old Macs productively. How many people can say that about their Dells? If anyone is really having trouble getting rid of their old PC then you must be fucking retarded. Friends, family, public schools, private schools, local universities, community colleges, churches, local home brew computer store, etc etc etc. If your local school won't take it drive to the poorest part of town and find a public school there. Except Microsoft will sue them for using an unlicenced OEM version of Windows, unless you are giving away a Linux machine or a Mac. snarkism That's using your ass.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   29.  Man my side hurts   by BuddyLeeCU       at Tue 14 Jan 9:38pm score of 1   in reply to comment 23     From laughing so hard. Environmental policy from a computer company representing less than 3% of the computer market worldwide and a fondness for making cases out of magnesium? I guess then you could recycle your PC into windproof matches. Show me a 10 year old powermac that can 1)burn CDs 2)play games (well no Mac can do that, so its kind of unfair) 3)rip movies and burn DVDs 4)browse the internet on a broadband connection. Yeah 10 year old powermacs are great if I want to dick around on Clarisworks and network with AppleTalk. And my 8 year old monochrome powerbook is even better! Just for a side note, the University of Colorado at Boulder is -giving away- as many powermacs as you can take. They're getting replaced with new Dells. The only problem is NOBODY wants the old powermacs, even as donations. And only about 70% of them have fully functional components. The university is trying to negotiate with Dell to get them to take responsibility for recycling the Powermacs. You probably feel like you just got punched in the balls, but do it once yourself for good measure.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   17.  Answer: Depends.   by rough ashler       at Mon 13 Jan 8:02am score of 1.5 astute   in reply to comment 1     IBM and HP have recycling programs in the US. Last time I checked, they did not use prison labor. The green party in Germany has pushed for getting rid of lead in consumer products, hence the push into LCD monitors/lead free solder. An outcome of these actions have been takeback laws - the company that makes some consumer good has to 'take it back' at the end of its lifespan. The protestors claim that the prisoners aren't given adequate protection from toxic materials in the computers; that Dell is taking work away from those few of us left on the outside; that Dell isn't making public the results of its recycling program; and that the program isn't doing enough anyway 1) Protection from toxins. Hey great. Where's the protection in prisons from HIV, as that is a surefire killer, not just a toxin. 2) Job scrapping computers - Yea, I bet ppl just LINE UP for that. "I'm a computer junk man". 3) Not making the results public. Buy shares. Raise the issue with shareholders. 4) Not doing enough. yawn Its action in a positive direction. The protestors didn't think on this one.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  If only they could change wardrobes   by Lothar       at Sun 12 Jan 8:36am score of 0.5 disingenuous     Dell execs themselves would look spiffy in pinstripes if we had real environmental and worker protections. At least they wouldn't be exposed to toxic fumes their slav...er, employees suffer now. Remember, The Internet makes you stupid.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

3.  Prision labor   by David Flores       at Sun 12 Jan 8:47am score of 3 clever     The growth of the prision labor force is one of the more disturbing trends in America today. It's bad enough that politicians currently demagogue the issue by pushing for Draconian prision terms for relatively minor offenses to get themselves elected. What we don't need is to provide American multi-national corporations with economic incentives to see a larger prision population in this country. As things stand now, corporations wield too much power and influence in Washington, remaking environmental and workplace safety legislation into forms that are more acceptable to their financial bottom lines. Do we really want corporations pushing legislators to imprison more and more people so that they can have an ever cheaper, and literally, captive labor force? Prisioners don't form unions. They don't demand health and dental benefits. They don't sue their employers for discrimination. They're a CEO's wet dream. One can imagine an Orwellian dystopia in which the majority of the population is imprisoned for trivial violations of law so that corporations can have their cheap, submissive labor. GAFB and GAFB2   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

4.  Re: Prision labor   by Blue Dot       at Sun 12 Jan 9:11am score of 3 astute   in reply to comment 3     It's bad enough that politicians currently demagogue the issue by pushing for Draconian prision terms for relatively minor offenses to get themselves elected. But really, is anyone getting work done on these? Aren't we always hearing of people who get out early on good behavior, or cut a deal with prosecutors for shorter sentences, or death sentences being commuted, etc.? Pols talk a good talk, but I am not so sure they are delivering. Do we really want corporations pushing legislators to imprison more and more people so that they can have an ever cheaper, and literally, captive labor force? At any given time our nation's inmates can make only so much butter and guns. I don't think we're at the point where we're pulling people off of the license plate stamping lines to get into these programs. Further, as for corporations peddling for influence to increase prison populations, there are so many groups pulling in so many ways, no net movement is occuring on any issues. (George Will wrote about this, with his usual slant albeit some good points) Politicians just take the money and run whichever way they were going to anyway. Prisioners don't form unions. They don't demand health and dental benefits. They don't sue their employers for discrimination. I most certainly don't think prisoners have a pleasant (or even decent in any way) lifestyle. They don't unionize, but advocacy groups are watching out for inmates. They happen to get health care and food, and let's face it, they are incarcerated. They would be doing laundry or breaking rocks while singing spirituals or making license plates or doing the warden's taxes otherwise. As long as there is someone watching over this UNICOR (someone outside of the outfit and someone outside the government) I don't find this too horribly offensive.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   7.  Re: Prison labor   by Utini       at Sun 12 Jan 9:25am score of 1.5 astute   in reply to comment 3     One can imagine an Orwellian dystopia in which the majority of the population is imprisoned for trivial violations of law so that corporations can have their cheap, submissive labor.       It's happening. It's called the War on (some)Drugs.       Incidentally, it's not just the corporations demanding more prison labor to compete with what they could find in the third world. It's also the growing number of prisons privately owned, who want to accept those contracts, and the prison guard unions(really powerful in California) who want to ensure thier pensions. Think Shawshank Redemption warden without the suicide. Plastics' answer to a question no one asked.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   27.  Re: Prision labor   by Petronius       at Tue 14 Jan 1:05pm score of 1   in reply to comment 3     Maybe the recycling of toxics is the proper answer for Gov. Ryan of Illinois' clearing out of Death Row. What rescues us from insignificance is the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. Carl Sagan   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  Speaking of Dell's public image...   by rdww       at Sun 12 Jan 9:19am score of 0.5 irrelevant     What's with those tiring "intern" ads... especially the blonde chick? What is it that's so weird about here face? She looks like she just had a lift at age 20.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

18.  Re: Speaking of Dell's public image...   by Goldmund       at Mon 13 Jan 8:43am score of 1   in reply to comment 5     What is it that's so weird about here face? She looks like she just had a lift at age 20. Probably because the actors they got to play the parts of the 'interns' are all over the age of 30 and therefore need plastic surgery to look like they fit in the under-25 age category. Or maybe she's just a mutant offspring of some failed ET-human breeding program.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   20.  Re: Speaking of Dell's public image...   by ExtraTrstl       at Mon 13 Jan 9:43am score of 1   in reply to comment 18     Hey, that was not failed...all guys have that problem. "What's the point of power if you can't abuse it?"--VendettaX   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  The problem isn't only in US prisons.   by shatov       at Sun 12 Jan 9:35am score of 1.5 informative     Developed countries also export a lot of their electronics trash, to countries such as China. The article talks about issues such as cheap labour allowing Western consumers to buy cheap electronics. And labourers working without any protection from toxic materials at all. Without regulations it is very doubtful if greener companies can thrive. A forged document can also be a weapon of mass destruction.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Protesting Dell is becoming the savvy thing to do.   by BuddyLeeCU       at Sun 12 Jan 3:15pm score of 2 compelling     Some students at the University of Colorado in Boulder decided to protest Dell's recycling program. They showed up waving the usual banners of ignorance and 'nothing better to do than find someone to boycott' attitude. The group was spreading so much misinformation that the on-campus Dell rep was talking slander, and public retractions got posted in the newspaper. Someone has some serious guns for Dell, considering HP/Compaq is virtually identical in size and if you include the other divisions of HP the volume of electronics is MUCH greater than Dell. What I wonder is why all this heat on computers, when we've been ditching electronics such as microwaves, televisions, refrigerators, ovens, dvd players, VCRs, and cell phones for years without any lip from environmentalists. Time for them to break out the 'we can only do so much' banner and wave it in my face I guess. -1 Cold Hard Truth Environmental Plasticians Don't Like To Acknowledge.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  Re: Protesting Dell is becoming the savvy thing   by tomaxxamot       at Sun 12 Jan 7:47pm score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 11     we've been ditching electronics such as microwaves, televisions, refrigerators, ovens, dvd players, VCRs, and cell phones for years without any lip from environmentalists. Uh huh. The above links cover televisions, DVD players, cell phones and computers. As far as ovens and refrigerators go, they're a much smaller problem considering that their cycles of obsolescence tend to be decades rather than six months to two years. Spread the News - the Ego has Landed.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   13.  Re: Uh huh.   by BuddyLeeCU       at Sun 12 Jan 9:13pm score of 0.5 obnoxious   in reply to comment 12     Putting a couple obscure links to articles talking about electronics as waste isn't the same rules, the same game, the same league, even the same fucking sport as the heat environmentalist groups are bringing on Dell. My refrigerator has 10 times the shit my PC does, so lets exercise some simple math skills. 1 pc every two years for twenty years = 10x waste. One refrigerator every 20 years = 10x waste. See? Same amount of waste. Thinking critically isn't so hard now is it? Punch yourself in the balls.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   21.  Re: Uh huh.   by howlmonkey       at Mon 13 Jan 5:53pm score of 1   in reply to comment 13     proudly standing up and defiantly proclaiming you do nothing is certainly going to get you the "get off my lawn" award, but i don't really understand your line of thinking. i am right in paraphrasing your argument thusly: people haven't raised stink about refrigerators in landfills so that discounts their message about computers? i think some research into the issue may be a good first step toward avoiding such publicly embarrassing tirades. i mean, this is an environmental issue (your environment), but it is also a public policy and state and local budgetary issue. who is going to pay for recycling all of those computers?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   24.  Keerist do you people read or just rant?   by BuddyLeeCU       at Mon 13 Jan 11:02pm score of 1   in reply to comment 21     "-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Save when you RECYCLE! Send your old PC to one of our environmentally friendly (EPA-compliant) recycling facilities, and we will send you a coupon for 10% off any software & peripheral online purchase to be redeemed on the Dell Home Systems Software & Peripherals website. We accept any brand of computer, keyboard, mouse, monitor or printer. (At this time, Dell's recycling program is limited to these items). How to recycle & receive your coupon! Follow these simple steps: Fill out and submit the Recycling Program form Usually within 24 business hours we will email you the shipping address where you will need to send your old equipment. We will also send you a Work Order Number that you will have to print on the outside of each box you send. Place the equipment you will be recycling in boxes appropriate for the size of the items. Ship to the facility's address that we sent you using the shipper of your choice. Make sure you print the Work Order prominently on the outside of all the boxes. You are responsible for any shipping costs. Within approximately 4-6 weeks of receiving your shipment, we will email your 10% off software and peripherals coupon which you can redeem online when you shop on the Dell Home Systems Software & Peripherals website. Click here to fill out and submit the Recycling Program form." For fuck's sake, its a meager 2 clicks off www.dell.com and RATHER PROMINENT. a www.dell.com link All you have to do is pay for shipping, it gets recycled for FREE. Please, punch yourself in the balls once for stupidity and once for being so damned lazy. If too lazy to punch yourself in the balls, I can randomly select a person from the phone book in your local area to do it FOR FREE!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   25.  Re: Keerist do you people read or just rant?   by howlmonkey       at Tue 14 Jan 8:26am score of 1   in reply to comment 24     and then when the magic dell pixies get your computer they wave their wands and miraculously the problem is over. out of sight and out of your ball-centric mind. nice vision, but we are not talking about recycling paper here. seriously, read up on the issue and if you still choose to live in a world where little toxic machines bleed bad chemicals into your water supply then move closer to a landfill, but the sane money is on trying to solve this very real problem.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]