Plastic's Second Birthday — Past Babyfood, Not Yet Housebroken
	found on Plastic written by the Plastic Editors, edited by Humberto (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Wed 15 Jan 7:01am
		Two years ago today, Plastic officially began recycling the web in real time. Despite a quickly-rising member count and apparent critical acclaim, Plastic's first year turned out to be quite a ride as the site faced numerous challenges, including the demise of its original parent company. Yet the site pulled through, and so this edition of our traditional retrospective begins at the start of Plastic's second year, when we were gazing into the future, blissfully unaware of the things to come...

	___ January - As the glow from our first anniversary wears off, we look at a suspicious parody of movie novelizations, a Bible Museum hawking Creationism, wonder about the US' treatment of Taliban prisoners and debate over whether conservatives are smarter than liberals. The Enron scandal further develops. People complain about rowdy kids and contemplate not having children. Meanwhile, somewhat older kids get busted for having drugs and even for not having them. As the month draws to a close, we give Bush's State of the Union address a once-over. February - Plastic is mentioned as part of the Abercrombie lifestyle, but we're too busy watching a day-trading chimpanzee getting shot into space to care. As the War on Terror rolls along, many are irked by the US' extreme patriotism. Meanwhile, the Enron scam continues to get everyone talking and brings out an old friend. While we discuss whether evolution has ended and global warming is true, we wonder how mainstream erotica has become. We gaze into the frightening underworld of evil teenage girl culture and wonder if the kids are having one too many drinks. After Googlewhacking has lost its charm, we take up Monsterwhacking. Meanwhile, we wonder why the NY Times 'leaks' detailed Iraq invasion plans. Plastic registers its 25,000th member, who promptly vanishes, and Carl gives the site a facelift of sorts. March - Ethical dilemmas are in the air as we wonder if capitalism is in need of fixing and mull over excemptions from hate crimes.The New York Times pulls a particularly loaded Ted Rall cartoon. We gasp when a woman leaves a hit-and-run victim in her garage to die. We warn the kids that their college degree might not be as valuable as they think (not even their fancy doctorates), and we deliberate on how to warn our far-off descendants to stay away from the nuclear waste dumps. We cast a skeptical eye veggie burgers and fungal meat and wonder if we owe our way of life to carnivorism. As usual, we criticise the Academy Awards. We finally find answers to life's burning questions as the Plastic FAQ is introduced. April - The joke's on us on April Fool's Day, courtesy of Carl. We begin to suspect that beneath our facade of civility we are rude and crude and becoming increasingly so. Maybe it's all the Wal-Mart wine we drink. Tales from the tech support trenches show us how stupid some customers can be. We join in Ben Stiller's pain after his verbified name is used to describe a very personal injury. We then mourn the deaths of Penthouse in print, free online content, and Linda Lovelace. We debate over whether western toilets are a health hazard and discuss a variety of other topics including Catholic schoolgirls dressing as such, dating down for gender equality, the most important band of the last 50 years, Havrilesky taking on The Bachelor, and fast-forwarding as theft. We wonder why learning is so hard, shedding some light on Americans' deficiency in understanding science. We also discuss Jenin and Ramallah, as well as the accidental US bombing of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. One woman crusades against 'small-penised' SUV owners, while a 240 MPG Volkswagen provides refuge from her wrath. May - Members reach for their dictionaries when new moderation tags arise. Meanwhile, a principal lifts skirts to check for thongs at a school dance. We also discuss what to think about before popping The Question, a bride says 'I do' at a Wal-Mart, and some folks get their brides in the mail. We take the pulse of classical music, critique Attack of the Clones, expressed our anger at the obscene amount of advertisments before the movie in theaters, followed Ann Landers grappling with naked teen slumber parties, found the religious roots behind some US Senators' support of Israel, argued whether the Greens' running against the late Paul Wellstone, the most liberal member of the US Senate, was wise or not, beat ourselves up for not being able to read the greatest works of literature and figured how be religiously observant in space. The revelation that Americans are really fat creates some grumbling, but a defiant 94 year old woman has a Big Mac attack, while others beat it out in the Great Rice Debate. June - Carl reveals announces the next step in the "collective struggle toward an emergent tomorrow" in the form of PlasticMail, a high-quality e-mail provider that is more than meets the eye. Meanwhile, we learn we have only ourselves to blame for high price of concert tickets, gawk at the new cleavage, and take note of what to do when you find your ex in an adult online photo gallery. We saw that pies on the windowsill can be art, Russia banning foreign slang words to preserve its homegrown language (which we later see with Japan), 50 reasons why we should love America, an incredibly stupid MTV reality TV stunt, the US Media compared to Stalin and Hitler, the launch of Apple's infamous 'Switch' ad campaign , Nickelodeon's plan to air a special on gay parents and Southwest Airlines' deplaning of obese passengers. Havrilesky tackles the topic of marriage and Moby blames poor sales on tech-savvy fans. College also became a hot topic as we argue over James Lilek's screed on college kids and multiculturalism and if college was hostile to men. Team USA beats Portugal in the World Cup playoffs, resulting in worldwide shock. The Pledge of Allegiance's 'under God.' is found unconstitutional. And then there is the almost-immortal but still notorious snakefish that inexpliably became a minor celebrity. In more political matters, the US vowed to pull out of UN peacekeeping missions if their troops weren't granted immunity. July - Carl adds a handy little feature to our user pages: our favorite words based on our every comment. Some are shocked, some become obsessed with tinkering with the stats. We're still debating about all the God references in the US government. We also discuss catcalling and one of many stories that draws the US as the new Roman Empire talking the decline of Pax Americana. There's the age of intelligent machines and an interesting story on Neurotheology which aims to 'bridge God and the brain,' saying our brains are 'wired for God.' Gene Kan, who helped put together Gnutella, commits suicide. Then there's Cheney and Halliburton, the future of baseball, the origins of the snob, Augusta National remaining a boy's club, a White House press pack veteran decring Bush's 'imperial presidency,' more plans in invading Iraq and the USA Today hack producing better stories than the real thing. We let loose what our own list of horrible TV shows and awful writing (yet wondering if we're missing high literary art in our lives), provided more fuel for the bitter fire that is the Apple/PC debate with an obvious bit of trollery that claims Mac users are smarter than PC users, took on the TIPS program, critiqued the first batch of WTC rebuilding concepts, and were grossed out by man barbequeing a kitten. There were San Francisco's blunt bus ads against the homeless, a hotly debated list of overrated albums, a survey dubbing the British as the most unwanted tourists, the start of the Nice Guy series, the threat of an oncoming asteroid, seeing if we'll still have postmodernism to kick around anymore, NYC Lolitas, a compound interest time travel fund. We wonder if this case was free speech whining or censorship, made our list of favorite cartoon characters and took a hard look at laughing at dictators. August - Carl unleashes QuickLinks upon the world, saving subitters from the dreaded 'nothing to discuss' comment. Plastic Meetups provide the opportunity to meet fellow Plastic folk in your area but have a fairly spotty success record. We have a continuation of the Nice Guy series, further discussed a potential war on Iraq but then on Saddam agreeing to negotiate, the idea of a Pliestocine Park bringing back the long-extinct, pop songs as funeral music, an Angelican clergy calling the Resurrection crap, the whole nine yards of Marxism, socialism, etc., celebrate They Might Be Giants, the next big name in fast food burgers, a county's prospect of eliminating the public library, and using the moon to dump our toxic crap. We hear more about the debate over creationism encroahing into school textbooks, wonder again if classical music is dead and if liberals are boring. An article, in the meantime, says 49% percent of Americans think the 1st Amendment goes too far. Plastic registers its 30,000th member, who gets exactly zero prizes sent his way. September - We again visit the realm of awful works of media, this time horrible Christian movies, very likely offending a good many people. The so-called Battle of the Sexes topic rears its head. Meanwhile, Nelson Mandela had to call Dubya's father and asked to keep his son in line. We beat around evolutionary psychology some more and discuss one high schooler who wore his Confederate flag shirt to school. We stop to remember the events of 9/11. There was the privitization of Social Security, and plans for a post-Saddam Iraq, the many, many, many words to label a carbonated beverage. The dotcom crash has done away with all that casual dress. The US is more and more described as an empire. For those unsure of their religion, Plastic arrives to help with the Belief-o-Matic. The US Civil War still lingers on with Gettysburg. Ayn Rand gets tossed around as does a writer calling less people to act on that impulse to write a book. October - A particularly controversy-laden poem on the WTC is batted around. There's US Senator Robert Torricelli's departure, the high average cost of a wedding, and the world's funniest joke redux. While Dubya tries to sell his war on Iraq, US authorities try to track down the serial sniper who had plagues the Washington DC metro area. Police later apprehended and charged two men in the case. In lighter fare, we try to answer the question, 'Can a sponge be gay?' We then move onto whether celebrities believe in a higher authority and whether this at all matters. We heard from the frontlines of tech support employees, now we hear from waitresses who weather through equally as annoying customers. Meanwhile, an ancient bone box is discovered with the inscription, 'James, son of Jospeh, brother of Jesus,' making it the oldest mention of Jesus outside the Bible. Jokes of James, the lesser-known and overshadowed, sibling are abound. An anti-gay Kodak worker is fired after sending his displeasure of a company-wide email announcing 'National Coming Out Day' to every employee (with a click of 'Reply to All'). Many mourn Senator Paul Wellstone after he dies in a plane crash in Minnesota. Tragedy also breaks out in Moscow after Chechen terrorists take hold of a theater and Russian special forces eventully ended the siege at a price - the gas they pumped into the bulding ended up killing 115 of the captives. November - We discuss the methods of coining a new word, in a push to bring 'fucknozzle' to the mainstream. After the US election day, there is indeed a Republican trifecta. McDonalds, the fast food company everyone loves to hate, faces hard times. We tear Sight and Sound's best movies list to pieces and kick around Harry Potter. We debate the minutiae of copyediting with transgendered people and animal rights. An instance of racism in Japanese bathhouses is put through the discussion ringer and people gathered to list their experiences in culinary disasters. An attempt to start up a Plastic Book Club falls flat as the club's first book apparently becomes their last. We look into the reading lists of soldiers and mulled over describing Grand Theft Auto: Vice City as art. TiVo's mishaps in recommending programs draw a discussion and Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine is released, sharply dividing opinions. In Nigeria, comments over the Miss World Pageant spark up a very ugly riot. December - Plastic gets into the merry holiday spirit with a dead Santa Claus, a crucified one, and a Winter Solstice celebration. On the media side, we deliberate on possible The Lord of the Rings racism before picking on The Two Towers. We lament TV shows of yore that died too soon, celebrate the best Christmas movies, weigh the value of disco and cursed bad movie accents and another dumb record company idea. We rejoice at the spammer who got his just desserts and look at the 'Lesbians Until Graduation' fad. SF Gate runs its annual Word of the Year contest, and we are only too willing to submit our own. We ponder what would happen if Quebec seceded. Boston's ban on smoking gets people fired up. Al Gore bows out of the Democrat Presidential candidate race. And after the gift-giving season we do some more complaining. Bitterness is soon replaced with a more jocular mood as a bizarro alien cult claims the first human clone. January - We kick off the new year discussing words and phrases that shall not be mentioned, Dubya's stimulus package, shampoo, a cross-dressing dad at a school function and California redefining rape. We're still hedging our early bets for the Democrat Presidential candidates. Afterwards, we kick the tires on cars we can't afford while salivating over Canada's economic good fortune. ___ Plastic members submitted thousands of stories this year, generating tens of thousands of comments. The above selection represents only a small sampling of the fruits of the enormous amounts of time and effort invested in Plastic by its members. Be it by moderating, commenting, rating, editing, donating, or just viewing, the participation of Plastic members has been vital in keeping the site thriving these past two years. Thus, we would like to thank everyone, and we would also like to extend special thanks to Carl, whose undying dedication enables all of this to be possible. Thanks again, and we hope that everyone will share their favorite stories and memories of our shared history. Happy birthday, Plastic! - The Plastic Editors

[ more plastic... ]    

show almost all: 102 commentsbest: 3 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

1.  Why, it seems like just yesterday...   by n29_w95       at Wed 15 Jan 3:43pm score of 1     ... when Plastic worked. What's goin' on, Carl? A whole day's worth of comments and stories are currently MIA. (Not complaining, just curious.) ---Pie is good!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  Re: Why, it seems like just yesterday...   by emperorpenguin       at Wed 15 Jan 4:13pm score of 1   in reply to comment 1     I have a theory that Plastic went out last night for a early birthday celebration, overimbibed, blacked out, and can't remember anything that happened in the past several hours. Still seems a little groggy, too. everything moves real slow when it's forty below   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   6.  Re: Why, it seems like just yesterday...   by MrFadedGlory       at Wed 15 Jan 4:19pm score of 1   in reply to comment 5     ...standing up, blearily casting about for it's car keys and stumbling toward the door before the real party animals wake up and twist it's rubber (plastic?!!?) arm into having just one or two more beers and maybe trying one of the 'pink ones' this time instead of focussing on the greenies....... ...hang on ... that was ME over New Year... ::Faded aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   12.  Re: Why, it seems like just yesterday...   by timnet       at Thu 16 Jan 6:33am score of 1   in reply to comment 6     ...after which, Plastic somehow catches a ride with a bunch of fratboys in a jeep, does a ocean of shots in a meatmarket for underagers (Plastic being two and all), stumbles outside to pee, accidentally staggers back into a biker bar ... and, peeved that all the "hot babes" have left, Plastic yells at the top of its lungs that all the bikers are a bunch of "assclownish fucknozzles." Plastic is then given "coercive corrective action," which lands it in the dumpster outside... So that's where Plastic was for a few hours. It's just been one of those years. But, hey, here's to brighter days! "I feel like I wouldn't like me if I met me." -- Tegan and Sara   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  yay!   by coquito       at Wed 15 Jan 3:43pm score of 1.5 succinct     despite the burps and glitches, i'm really glad Plastic is here. ¡Feliz Cumpleaños! now i'm off to drink in celebration... In Hindu, you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods -- learned Hindu scholar   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

3.  Go Plastic!   by Pravda       at Wed 15 Jan 4:05pm score of 1     And Carl, and everybody else for making me laugh, cry, and think! Seen in the subQ: "For once I have to +Pravda. Scary. - Anonymouse Savant"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

53.  [blank stare]   by n29_w95       at Thu 16 Jan 3:02pm score of 1   in reply to comment 3     uh... "cry"? ---Pie is good!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   76.  Re: [blank stare]   by snarkism       at Thu 16 Jan 7:20pm score of 1   in reply to comment 53     uh... "cry"? You know ... crying ... it's when the emotional impact of something hits so hard that you can't stop the salty water from leaking out of the corner of your eye. Just FYI, of course. snarkism That's using your ass.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   93.  Re: [blank stare]   by n29_w95       at Fri 17 Jan 6:58am score of 1   in reply to comment 76     "emotional impact?"... You mean like onions? ---Pie is good!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

4.  I feel exhausted...   by MrFadedGlory       at Wed 15 Jan 4:09pm score of 1.5 astute     ...It's like running a news marathon. It's amazing to think that so much actually happened in the last year and that we managed to find such a diversity of angles for viewing it all through. Having only been here for 6 months, it was also great to get a look at how the site had evolved earlier and also at the way the 'site opinion' has developed. If Plastic was a college dorm, we would all be: Permanently camped out in the hall ways and common rooms; Bottle after empty bottle of beer and wine would be strewn about us; Potato chip bags would float gently in the fetid air; Pizza boxes would spawn new strains of life, quietly in the corners; The detritus of intellectual exuberance would grow joyfully just out of the line of site; Voices are raised and strained in disagreement, Shouting and soaring in concurrence, Whispering and existing in the moments between words and looks of disbelief. All of us having the times of our lives. hmmmm...I didn't mean for that to come out that way.... ::Michael aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

77.  ejaculation does that to you.   by snarkism       at Thu 16 Jan 7:25pm score of 1   in reply to comment 4     Whispering and existing in the moments between words and looks of disbelief. All of us having the times of our lives. ORGY! Wooohooo ... That's using your ass.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   78.  Living up to the name...   by MrFadedGlory       at Thu 16 Jan 7:29pm score of 1   in reply to comment 77     ...your comments have been noted. Thnaks ::Faded aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   94.  Re: ejaculation does that to you.   by Taft       at Fri 17 Jan 7:23am score of 1   in reply to comment 77     Personally, my favourite moment of the past year was the exchange that led to your sig, Snarkism. Is she still modelesque cookiepus? Or has she gone down the "freshman 15-esque" road so many have before her?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  The Ugly-- Good And Bad   by uncarved block       at Wed 15 Jan 4:45pm score of 3 astute     First off, congratulations are in order to Carl: the changes he's made have changed some of the details, but not the general feeling, of the site I first saw advertised on Suck. Reliability is increased, the conversations are lively, and the webmaster has not (apparently) gone stark raving mad during this time.       There have been many complaints that the variability in the stories has diminished, as well as the range of response. Assuming there's more to this than halcyon nostalgia, I would still say, "So?" People, places and things change, and usually for the worst. To argue for a glass half full of Plastic, the range and depth of responses far surpasses anything available in my daily life, and suspect I'm not alone.       For even more ugliness that looks better on second glance, let's consider moderation and insularity, both occasionally derided by visitors and members.       Moderation: is it unfair? Sure-- for one thing, the easy and obvious genius of my comments this week have gone sadly unnoticed :) Which is to say that perhaps you and I aren't as clever by half. And downmodding, that hobgoblin of us all-- but considering how political is most of the content and debate, how horrible is it, really? A contrarian can still be read, and even applauded, something alien to places like Freerepublic or smirkingchimp. Not better or worse, but different, and a little hostility is usually the price when opposing viewpoints meet for real.       'Another longwinded post from the block' some of you might be thinking by now-- but how did this occur to this imagined detractor? Because of the small amount of dedicated posters, yet another of Plastic's vices. Again, how horrible is this, really? Yes, you may get pissed off that someone continues to ignore the persuasiveness of your point, but occasionally, you get a second, or even fifth, chance to try again, with the added advantage that you can study up on their overall thinking if so inclined. All the advantages of belonging to a local debating club (you know, folks used to do that for fun), without the bad breath and dressing up. Every time I've visited kuro5hin, the content and thinking has been good, even great, but posting always seemed a bit like debating a stranger on vacation as compared to a family member-- there's no chance to follow up.       If nothing else, Plastic is a support group for those addicted to writing 500 word essays, and hey! we need love too . . . Eschew Obfuscation Assiduously   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

35.  Another longwinded post from the... er, nevermind.   by lyd       at Thu 16 Jan 1:24pm score of 1   in reply to comment 7     All the advantages of belonging to a local debating club (you know, folks used to do that for fun), without the bad breath and dressing up. Yes! ummm... Sort of! This is in a very large part why plastic is valuable to me. "Sort of" is because I do not comment very often, so it is not really a debate club for me. Having a group of regular commentors who I know to be reasonably accurate and rational is a huge thing, however. Plastic offers me something I can get from virtually no other single source; well reasoned opinions on more than one side of an issue. If I am really lucky these various opinions occur in a give and take dialog that actually puts meat on the usual here-are-my-talking-points arguments you get elswhere. While I have seldom arrived at my own personal answers on matters of opinion or principle solely from a plastic thread, I am almost always rewarded with the right questions to begin evaluating an issue, without needing to chase down and discard all the straw man chaff. Thanks for that! lyd   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  It seems my original message got zapped.   by MAYORBOB       at Wed 15 Jan 5:37pm score of 1.5 astute     Must have been a case of carl's squirrels eating bad nuts or something. Anyhow, it hardly seems like two years. Reason being, for me, that my two years with Plastic doesn't occur until April. But seriously, I guess it wouldn't do any good to try to convince anyone that I really don't care about Plastic, because it should be obvious that I consider a home away from home. So thanks to everyone who participated by submitting a story, commenting in the queue, or commenting when the story made it topside. Thanks to the editors who toil and manage to make presentable stories out of what are sometimes rough little gems. Finally to carl, from whom all plastic things flow, God Speed and keep the squirrels fed. Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

9.  Happy b-day   by jbou       at Wed 15 Jan 9:26pm score of 1.5 brilliant     Carl has done a great job over the last year. He's turned plastic into a great easy to use place, and you all have helped make it worth coming back. And to think people were pouring out a little liquor to mourn the death of plastic, and Carl resurrected it like Pulp Fiction resurrected Travolta's career,and unlike Travolta's next movie plastic got better, thanks Carl, and thank all of you.       Jon Arguments have no chance against petrified training; they wear it as little as the waves wear a cliff.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

10.  Damn! 2 years of my life gone   by jmitchel       at Wed 15 Jan 9:38pm score of 1     Yep, member Three-fourty-mumble. I have a hard time believe plastic has only been with us for two years, it seems to me as if a main-era has passed. Well, hasn't it? Between terrorism and having to look for a real job, the world seems a rather darker and colder place than it used to. Cheers to dear, departed suck, To Joey, to Polly, Terry (Hey! all their names and with a 'y'. Was something funny going on?) who aren't exactly departed but aren't my morning pals anymore. Peter Jennings... Did you know him?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Impossible.   by mrjeff3000       at Thu 16 Jan 1:15am score of 1     According to my profile, I've been a member (Plastizen?) since Day Two. That can't be right, can it? Thanks, all (especial thanks to Our Pal) for providing me the incentive to learn the rudiments of HTML text tags -- Plastic has made me teh 1337 haxxor that I am today.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

41.  Re: Impossible.   by swalve       at Thu 16 Jan 2:17pm score of 1   in reply to comment 11     I too seem to have been on since Day Two- I had no idea! My crappy (relative to MAYORBOB, etc.) would say different- but I've had fun anyway. MY wirting certianly has immproved! "If silence is golden, you couldn't raise a dime!"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

13.  Plastic ... our surrogate family member   by timnet       at Thu 16 Jan 6:50am score of 1.5     Two years? Ca n'est pas possible! Time flies but, fortunately, Plastic has stayed -- and grown bigger and better -- while so much of the Web has gone (sometimes unfortunately) out of business or just continued to get worse and more ad-laden. And, most importantly, Plastic has become like a family. An occasionally dysfunctional, get-into-a-shouting-match, you'll-never-get-invited-into-my-living-room-again family, but in the end everything works out and we all spend the holidays together and exchange presents. Here's to you, Plastic! My life would just not be the same without Plastic ... and all the Plasticians I've come to consider a cyberfamily! "I feel like I wouldn't like me if I met me." -- Tegan and Sara   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

14.  hoo-rah!   by joyful immolation       at Thu 16 Jan 9:43am score of 1.5 interesting     present me with victory, and all i have are questions. 1. how much longer can i afford to play merry hell with my Real Life by letting a 30-second skim of Plastic's top stories become a five-hour debate? 2. How much longer can Carl afford to let Plastic play merry hell with his real life? 3. Will we get over the budget hump for another year? can't George Soros or some other aburdly wealthy philanthropist donate 8 million and solve our problems forever? 4. In the aforesaid case, would Carl put the money in the Plastic Trust Fund, or would he buy a Ferrari? 5: Despite all of these important and unimportant questions, the very fact that's I'm still here (wow..I've been here for more than a year and that suddenly makes me an _old_member!) means that I haven't been able to leave. Because it compels me. Long live Plastic. PS: wow....the Jenin debates...nostalgia.. this city's dance/makes you feel so cold, it's got/so many people, but it's got no soul-   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

15.  Put plainly, but felt deeply.   by jenmac       at Thu 16 Jan 10:39am score of 1     Plastic was two weeks old when my buddies at TeeVee encouraged me to go check it out. Time really does fly when you're having fun. Thanks to Carl for working tirelessly to keep us amused, and for his nice responses to my endless pestering. Thanks to the editors for keeping our content nice and snappy. And thanks to everyone for being the (generally) razor-sharp, thoughtful, kindhearted wiseasses that you are. Here's to many more years of our raucous caucus. Is it sticky? Would it kill you? -- snut_rucket's son at the La Brea tar pits   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

16.  And you may ask yourself-Well..How did I get here?   by gparizot       at Thu 16 Jan 11:06am score of 1     I've only been a member since May of 2001, although I lurked around for a short while before that. I have no memory of how I found Plastic. But then again, I can't remember what I had for dinner last night either. But I'm glad I'm here, and from the dirty dishes in the sink, apparently did eat. Happy Birthday! "Just 'cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there" - Radiohead   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

17.  An Education   by ms_sue_collins       at Thu 16 Jan 11:19am score of 1.5 compelling     It's not often that we're given an opportunity to say something about Plastic. Meta threads, since they tend toward the whiny, don't often see the light of day. So I relish this chance to pay homage. When I joined Plastic almost exactly one year ago, I was an unemployed English teacher who was as technologically inept as could be. I literally (yes, literally) barely knew how to turn on a computer and, in a sort of cognitive dissonance fashion, was rather proud of my ignorance. So my first attempts here with all you wizards were quite pathetic. HTML? Hell, I didn't even know WTF, which as it turns out is often far more useful. But a couple of very kind and understanding plasticians put up with my questions and helped me along. More important, though, than learning how to format an argument on thread or submit a story in the dreaded subQ was gaining an exposure to so many different opinions on issues of which I had either a preconceived notion or which I had not ever bothered to consider. Plastic has reminded me to stay openminded and, by example (some good; some bad) how to debate an issue firmly but with consideration. I am constantly amazed at how much I've learned here and at how much I still don't know. Long live Plastic -- and thank you, Carl, for your dedication. It's a dog's life   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

18.  Plastic's biggest achievement   by elforman       at Thu 16 Jan 11:25am score of 1.5 informative     I think the biggest achievement Plastic has accomplished is to have become a source of information for Google News. For instance, say you remember hearing about a pregnant Barbie doll and you go to Google News to look into it. Enter 'barbie pregnant' in the search field and checkout the fourth item in the resulting list. Hell, just enter 'ms_sue_collins' or 'mayorbob' and see what you get. I think it's pretty damned cool that Plastic has become a recognized source of information.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

19.  Re: Plastic's biggest achievement   by timnet       at Thu 16 Jan 11:33am score of 1   in reply to comment 18     I think the biggest achievement Plastic has accomplished is to have become a source of information for Google News. My God, you're right! I tried that, and it's amazing how much a bunch of "newsmakers" we are. That's really funny, I think. "I feel like I wouldn't like me if I met me." -- Tegan and Sara   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   92.  Re: Plastic's biggest achievement   by LeighBCD       at Fri 17 Jan 5:06am score of 1   in reply to comment 19     I would say many congratulations are in order for MayorBob and ms_sue_collins for making the grade as quoted news sources on Google. To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   38.  Re: Plastic's biggest achievement   by random1       at Thu 16 Jan 1:54pm score of 1   in reply to comment 18     Also, flipping through an issue of "The Week", (which is news compilation newsmagazine, for those who don't know), and they also referenced Plastic as a source. Imagine my surprise! Kudos and happy birthday!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

20.  They grow up so fast.   by 2trew       at Thu 16 Jan 11:40am score of 1     I find it hard to believe that Plastic's two years old, it seems like it's been a part of my life for much longer than that. This may be because I've taken to forming my thoughts as if I was posting. I also find it hard to believe that Plastic is two because it doesn't scream "Hnoooo!" and run to the farthest end of the house whenever I try to get ahold of it, it hasn't spilled anything on the carpet, and the cat doesn't flee in terror whenever I log on, but that's probably just me. Thanks Carl, editors, thanks Plasticians. It's been good, and I think it'll get better. Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

50.  Re: They grow up so fast.   by gparizot       at Thu 16 Jan 2:55pm score of 1   in reply to comment 20     I also find it hard to believe that Plastic is two because it doesn't scream "Hnoooo!" and run to the farthest end of the house whenever I try to get ahold of it, it hasn't spilled anything on the carpet, and the cat doesn't flee in terror whenever I log on, What are you talking about? You submit stories to the subQ, don't you? "Just 'cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there" - Radiohead   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

21.  Mmm! Mind candy!!!!   by tomc       at Thu 16 Jan 11:44am score of 1     Plastic has always been a great source of mind candy. But I don't understand all this talk about members. As great as Plastic is, it has never done anything for my member. between vanilla sponge layers No Pussyfooting   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

22.  My Favorite Story   by mischief       at Thu 16 Jan 11:57am score of 1 obnoxious     The classic Penis Removed From Ass ! Thank you, and I'm still editing. "And then... and then... and then...", and then the man who stuttered died, his last words an echo of his life   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

23.  Arggh, ye forgot something, landlubber!   by Remus Shepherd       at Thu 16 Jan 11:58am score of 1 modappeal     Argh, matey, no mention of Talk like a Pirate Day? Mark me words, every nineteenth of september ye Plasticians will all be guzzlin' rum and singing chanteys, boyo. Yer never gonna be rid o' the Plastic Pirates!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

25.  Tech good, content crap   by FatRatBastard       at Thu 16 Jan 12:23pm score of 1     I've been with Plastic since day one and I have to say I come back less and less as time goes by. Kudos to Carl for continually improving a damn fine content system -- I'm always impressed with the features that keep showing up -- but content wise Plastic has devolved into something akin to the NewsMax of the Left (but in discussion board form). Gone are the days when you'd find cool and quirky content or interesting topics over a range of issues and viewpoints. Now everything skews almost exclusively to the type of content you'd find in TNR/The Nation (which actually wouldn't be bad if there was any meaningful discussion created, but 99% of all discussions amount to nothing more than snarkfests). Try submitting something that runs counter to the "Plastic Way" (tm) and odds are it'll never get past the queue. Its a shame. I know more than one person (even of the TNR/Nation reading persuasion no less) who have basically stopped coming to Plastic because the signal to noise ratio is way, way too low. As I said before major props to Carl for keeping the site up -- the technology really is impressive -- but I'm going to sound like a old geezer and say it was much better way back when. Plastic: documenting the growing irrelevance of the left since 2000.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

29.  From what I've seen....   by jbou       at Thu 16 Jan 12:54pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     from glancing at older threads nothing has changed, the politics back then were to the left, and they still are, and people were complaining back then, and they're complaining now. Arguments have no chance against petrified training; they wear it as little as the waves wear a cliff.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   37.  Re: From what I've seen....   by FatRatBastard       at Thu 16 Jan 1:33pm score of 1   in reply to comment 29     Yes there has always been a bend to the left, but at least in the begining you got a nice, varied set of submissions. I chalk it up to the fact that most stories were submitted / approved by different content providers (Nerve.com, Wired, Spin, etc.). Now the vast majority of submissions are about society and/or politics, with a smattering of music here and there. Now, you just have a cabal of editors who greenlight the same crap over and over again. Plastic: documenting the growing irrelevance of the left since 2000.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   43.  Re: From what I've seen....   by stankow       at Thu 16 Jan 2:20pm score of 1   in reply to comment 37     I chalk it up to the fact that most stories were submitted / approved by different content providers (Nerve.com, Wired, Spin, etc.). And the vast majority of them were, to be frank, crap. Remember the Wired section back then? Jammed full of one-sentence writeups that led back to Wired stories, forcing us to give them our pageviews before we realized that the stories were crap. Hell, in the last days before they cut bait, most of the comments on Wired stories consisted of "This story sucks. Go to hell, Beth." Want cool and interesting stories that aren't about "society and/or politics"? Submit 'em. We're user-supported 100 percent here at Plastic, and the really interesting off-beat stuff does manage to make it through. It's the same-old-same-olds that die on the vine.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   46.  Re: From what I've seen....   by Ajax       at Thu 16 Jan 2:41pm score of 1   in reply to comment 37     That's because "the same crap" is what comes out of the queue highly rated and with lots of comments saying "post this!" Didja ever think that the reason more stories you like got posted in "the good old days" might be because you were coming back more often to recommend them? Honestly, most of us editors are more than happy to post anything that gets submitted -- provided people tell us that they want it to be posted. I hate to have to keep repeating this, but Plastic is a bottom-up phenomenon, not a top-down phenomenon. We avoid posting what people say they don't want to see (via the submission queue), and we certainly can't post what doesn't get submitted in the first place. Bottom line, FatRatBastard: it's not really our job to make the site more to your tastes. It's yours. :) "Coca-Cola® and Armageddon® / We like it, like it, yes we do!" -- Clutch.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   52.  Re: From what I've seen....   by FatRatBastard       at Thu 16 Jan 2:57pm score of 1   in reply to comment 46     Bottom line, FatRatBastard: it's not really our job to make the site more to your tastes. It's yours. :) a) I never claimed it was. I merely stated why I don't hang around much any more. b) Hanging around the sub-q is about the only thing I do in Plastic anymore (other than the occasional snarky comment to add to the noise around here... at least you get to see some different points of view on the Q before they get nuked). As I said it still doesn't seem to make much of a difference, which is fine. Plastic isn't my little kingdom. It just means I have less urge to hang around (which was my entire point in the beginning). Plastic: documenting the growing irrelevance of the left since 2000.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   66.  Perhaps   by uncarved block       at Thu 16 Jan 4:55pm score of 1   in reply to comment 37     part of the problem with a variety of sources is out of Polymer control: I know that several early submissions came from Suck, I suspect many links here came from there, and I posit that Suck's writing/attitude informed the posts here.       For another: the attitude of the whole US has taken a decidedly serious turn since 9/11. Part of the playful tone came, IMO, from a sense of ease and carelessness-- politics just didn't matter all that much. Now, with one domestic disaster, the Afghan campaign, an apparently impending war, and the collapse of the part of the economy many Polymers liked the most (if not actively working in it) . . . well, I just don't find it in myself to be the person I was even two years ago when Plastic began.       Don't get me wrong; I agree that something is missing from the site I first joined, but I can't agree it's all our fault. Good to hear from you again, BTW, and hope all is well. Eschew Obfuscation Assiduously   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   82.  Maybe...   by MrFadedGlory       at Thu 16 Jan 8:47pm score of 1   in reply to comment 52     ..you should try subbing some more stories? Hanging in the Q is one thing, it's necessary to make the site work, but it's not what it's about, is it? We all go through periods when we can't be bothered subbing (I think I am coming out of one at the moment).The whole idea, though, is to submit your own stories. Look, no one gets more frustrated than me at the content here sometimes. It annoys me that we spend our time sitting around dissappearing up the ass of America. A cat could fart in Kalamazoo and it would make it onto the front page of Plastic faster than someone unearthing a plot to assassinate the Chancellor of Germany (well maybe that's an exaggeration). I also get annoyed at the fact that any international story has to have some relevance to the US for it to be deemed intresting. If you can't tagg it back to something Americans understand, then it doesn't stand a chance. BUT... I acknowledge the fact that most of the active users of Plastic are citizens of North America. I acknowledge the fact that most of them will not be as well travelled as me I acknowledge the fact that most of the users will need to have a roadmap drawn for them. I want to see more international stories on Plastic. More international stories will attract more international users who will submit more international stories which will attract more international users which wil.... Do you see where I'm going with this? I only submit international stores these days. I used to sub stories that I thought might get published, but soon became bored with that. Now, I just ensure that I do a lot of work in background research so that I can lead the readers into why the story is relevant to them, or to people in other places. I ensure that I do not fill it with snark or over state an opinion. I hope that all of this will yield results. I hope that I might be able to make a few of the Amerophiles take a look outside thier borders and see things from a different angle than they are used to. With the increased insight, they might make better subs or vote for more marginal things..who knows. It might be a fool's task and I might be kidding myself, but at least it's a positive response. It's better than sitting on the sidelines making snarky comments and blaming everyone else except yourself. If you want better content here, put it here. ::Faded aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   84.  Re: Maybe...   by MAYORBOB       at Thu 16 Jan 9:01pm score of 1   in reply to comment 82     "A cat could fart in Kalamazoo and it would make it onto the front page of Plastic faster than someone unearthing a plot to assassinate the Chancellor of Germany" That's sounds just like the theory of a butterfly fluttering its wings in Guatemala results in a thunderstorm in Boston. Seriously, I commend your effort to try to get more international stories onto Plastic. I try to throw a few in the hopper now and then. But, the one advantage a foreign submitter has over an American is that they are liable to have a better feel for the story that a casual perusal of a piece in the paper won't give you. Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   85.  Re: Maybe...   by MrFadedGlory       at Thu 16 Jan 9:05pm score of 1   in reply to comment 84     I'm also in a better time zone, too. I can catch all of the Australasian stories at the beginning of their cycles (which are often just re-hashes of what's been in the NTY and WashPost during the day) and then towards my afternoon, I get all the fresh European stories at the beginning of the cycles. Having lived in many of the countries concerned, I also know why they are important... Anyway...my arm is getting sore from patting myself on the back. ::Faded aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   32.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by ms_sue_collins       at Thu 16 Jan 1:08pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     Gone are the days when you'd find cool and quirky content or interesting topics over a range of issues and viewpoints. I've heard this complaint, in one form or another, since the day I joined Plastic a year ago. Overall, I always manage to find something quirky and/or interesing here. Most are fairly evenhanded write-ups of issues covering a broad spectrum. In fact, some have voiced their preference for a more personal POV in the write-ups, as is suggested right on the submission page itself: "Of particular interest is your take on the story, and why you think it's worth discussing." Try submitting something that runs counter to the "Plastic Way" (tm) and odds are it'll never get past the queue. I'd love to see examples of stories that were declined solely because they did not hew to a Plastic line. Chances are, there were other problems with the write-ups. In general, if you have an interesting topic that is written clearly and includes informative links, you will see your story on board. It's a dog's life   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   55.  Hey, that's me...   by 1fastdog       at Thu 16 Jan 3:12pm score of 1   in reply to comment 32     In fact, some have voiced their preference for a more personal POV in the write-ups, as is suggested right on the submission page itself Thank you ms_sue, for voicing one of my pet peeves. The insistence for "balanced" or "unbiased" write-ups. Sorry, but there is no such animal. We've all got opinions; suppressing them in the name of balance makes for some mighty dull reading. I'm not suggesting that everybody submit write-ups full of raging bias that can't be read without donning an asbestos suit, but there's nothing wrong with a well written & well researched submission that flies it colors right up front. And kudos to you, ms_sue, for your always well written submissions... Tipping The Bottle & Biting The Lime   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   33.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by wetzel       at Thu 16 Jan 1:10pm score of 0.5 irrelevant   in reply to comment 25     FatRatBastard, why not go onto a chat at Reason or the Weekly Standard and let them know that the best discussion site on the web is being taken over by libruls. Frankly, it'd be good to have more wingnuts on board to give the red ass! I'm getting tired of preaching to the choir.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   56.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by wetzel       at Thu 16 Jan 3:13pm score of 1   in reply to comment 33     FatRatBastard, if its any consolation I am always getting modded down for letting my ranting Democrat crank out of the basement!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   40.  Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by Brian Jones       at Thu 16 Jan 2:16pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     I'm probably hollering into the hurricane on this one - but there always seems to be at least one submission that makes it into play despite some truly Quaylian spelling errors. It makes all of us look bad. So, for what I wish was the last time but I know damn well won't be: GANDHI. HYPOCRISY. AL-QAEDA - or Qaida. Where did this "Queda" crap come from? Cheap crass attention-whoring plug goes here.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   48.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by Ajax       at Thu 16 Jan 2:54pm score of 1   in reply to comment 40     AL-QAEDA - or Qaida. Where did this "Queda" crap come from? Your other two are spot-on, but I think some latitude is traditionally given in the case of words being trans-literated from Arabic. For example, during the mid-1980s one might encounter any of a dozen different spellings of the surname of Libya's dictator...everything from "Kadaffy" in the Chicago Tribune to "Gaddafi" in Time. That said, the ham-handed botchings of the word "hypocrisy" I continue to see on Plastic still curl my toenails. Given that it's one of our favorite words, you'd think we'd learn to spell it properly at some point... "Coca-Cola® and Armageddon® / We like it, like it, yes we do!" -- Clutch.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   54.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by gparizot       at Thu 16 Jan 3:06pm score of 1   in reply to comment 40     one word: Missle. "Just 'cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there" - Radiohead   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   57.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by elforman       at Thu 16 Jan 3:14pm score of 1   in reply to comment 40     Shouldn't that be "Quaylean"?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   72.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by timnet       at Thu 16 Jan 5:55pm score of 1   in reply to comment 40     Geez, you're missing the most common and, for us anal-retentive grammarians, the most frustrating error seen in Plastic submissions and posts. That is the distinction between its and it's. Somewhere on Plastic, can we post: it's = contraction for "it is" its = third-person neutral possessive, as in "the United States needs to consider its actions..." Thank you. "I feel like I wouldn't like me if I met me." -- Tegan and Sara   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   58.  There's Arabic-translation latitude, and then...   by Brian Jones       at Thu 16 Jan 3:24pm score of 1   in reply to comment 48     There's plain old sloppiness. You can have al-Qaeda, al-Qaida, even al-Qa'idah. And that's about where it ends. This isn't a case of dealing with individuals who deliberately tweak the spelling of their names. You know who uses "al-Queda"? Barbra Streisand, Certifiable Moron. Cheap crass attention-whoring plug goes here.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   60.  Could be either   by Brian Jones       at Thu 16 Jan 3:30pm score of 1   in reply to comment 57     Or maybe "Quaylish", if you want that Lewis Carroll feel. Cheap crass attention-whoring plug goes here.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   73.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by sulli       at Thu 16 Jan 7:05pm score of 1   in reply to comment 72     Thank you for exercising your free speech rights, and never ever ever EVER again using the execrable abomination speach. Tout abus sera puni   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   79.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by automaticvenus       at Thu 16 Jan 7:45pm score of 1   in reply to comment 72     That's an easy one. The most frustrating error I find is this one: The Archbishop that likes altar boys asked to be dismissed. The Archbishop who likes altar boys asked to be dismissed. I slap meself everytime me do the former.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   81.  Re: There's Arabic-translation latitude, and   by automaticvenus       at Thu 16 Jan 8:11pm score of 1   in reply to comment 58     Also al-Kaida and al-Kaeda. Literally it means "the base;" colloquially it means "the military command." al-Jazira (aka al Jazeera) is also transliterated in various ways. I wish the U.S. hadn't fired those gay Arabic translators as maybe they could have explained the nuances. Of course, then there's G.W. Bush. In his last major policy speech on Iraq, I started to tally all the different ways he pronounced it and lost count.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   99.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by ideonode       at Fri 17 Jan 10:41am score of 1   in reply to comment 72     I'm glad you said it. It's one of those things that bugs me rotten. (Also parentheses that are unclosed. Really, really annoying   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   105.  Re: Tech good, content okay, SPELLING crap   by odin53       at Fri 17 Jan 2:50pm score of 1   in reply to comment 79     I don't thinl the former is wrong. The problem is that you use "archbishop" incorrectly; it's a general noun unless it's part of a name. You should use "that" if you're not specifically naming any archbishop and you're using "that" to limit the meaning to one member of the general class of archbishops. You should use "who" if you specifically name one of them or when it's clear that from the beginning you're talking about a particular person. So, "Archbishop Lovejoy, who likes altar boys, asked to be dismissed," and "The archbishop that likes altar boys asked to be dismissed."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   97.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by tdahnsn       at Fri 17 Jan 10:01am score of 1   in reply to comment 25     Follow the following method: 1) Scan for threads that are tangentially related to your own pet topic. 2) Introduce related idea that veers closer to your own pet topic. 3) Respond to all responses with flamebait which steers closer and closer to your own pet topic. 4) Now, you've got a thread which is active and actively read about your topic, no matter what the original article was. How else do you get every single story to venture into why Vegetarians are preachy, the French are cheese eating surrender monkeys, and the British have bad teeth? Why? What's the most callous thing you've said today?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   100.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by plutocracywatch       at Fri 17 Jan 11:16am score of 1   in reply to comment 25     It is discouraging to get modded down when you know it was done out of spite such as the time someone modded me disingenuous when I asked if yada, yada, yada made it it to the new Oxford dictionary. BTW, it did. I'd prefer to eliminate the karma altogether or at least the negative karma, which empowers people to anonymously criticize without debate. Another reform (if Carl or anyone is reading) is to slow the pace of submissions. Some of us non-genius types require time, like a day or two, to think through an issue. How about three articles for three days per category, longer if the comments continue to fire in. Having said all that, I like that articles are required to post as Plastic is a good source of news as well as comment. Thanks Plastic for this forum. Vent therapy for the masses: You have nothing to lose but the unbearable lightness of irrelevancy! read   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   102.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by lordsatan       at Fri 17 Jan 1:51pm score of 1   in reply to comment 100     It is discouraging to get modded down when you know it was done out of spite such as the time someone modded me disingenuous when I asked if yada, yada, yada made it it to the new Oxford dictionary. BTW, it did. I'd prefer to eliminate the karma altogether or at least the negative karma, which empowers people to anonymously criticize without debate. if it cost more points to mod someone down, i have a feeling it wouldn't get used nearly as much. i got "modappealed" TWICE on a post just for remarking that i wish i'd had the mod points to reward another poster. here i'd always thought that "modappeal" was like begging for more karma (which isn't what i posted).   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   103.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by MAYORBOB       at Fri 17 Jan 1:59pm score of 1   in reply to comment 102     Actually it costs twice the karma to downmod as it does to up mod. A good rule of thumb is, if you think the downmod was unwarranted is to just ignore it. Often, what happens is that somebody comes along and disagree with the downmod and upmods the comment. But, even if that doesn't happen, it doesn't do any good to wonder aloud in the thread what it was all about. Those type of posts are almost automatics to receive -modappeal. By the way, if your post was as you say it was, I agree with your assessment that somebody didn't understand what -modappeal is all about. Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   104.  Re: Tech good, content crap   by lordsatan       at Fri 17 Jan 2:19pm score of 1   in reply to comment 103     yeah, i knew it cost twice as much... i'm just not sure that's enough to dissuade people from getting carried away. (sorry if it sounded like i was bitch about the downmod in my last post - i actually only mentioned it to support the point i was making.)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

26.  God, has it been that long?   by Ubiquitous       at Thu 16 Jan 12:30pm score of 1     I joined Plastic when it was just a week old (and cute as a button) as a logical extension of Suck where it was first proposed (Whatever happened to Polly Ester?). So why do I only have 20 Karma? Perhaps I'm under-appreciated, but more likely I suck. The floggings will continue, until moral Improves.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

28.  Re: God, has it been that long?   by jmitchel       at Thu 16 Jan 12:44pm score of 1   in reply to comment 26     Don't feel too bad Ubiquitous, it's taken me two years to make Karma 50. Polly is still out there, on tinylittlepenis.com. I haven't followed it since last spring, but it doesn't look like she has a real job yet. Peter Jennings... Did you know him?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   74.  Piling on   by Richard Banks       at Thu 16 Jan 7:06pm score of 1   in reply to comment 28     And to those for whom there is not enough Havrilesky on the Web, the former Polly is also one-third of an experimental pop trio. Check out her music here if you don't believe me. "I'm Against This War. But I'm not with These Other People."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

27.  Two More Years! Two More Years!   by asthmaticeog       at Thu 16 Jan 12:38pm score of 1     A big, well-deserved Mazel Tov to Carl, to whom we're obviously indebted for all of this, and sloppy, wet, thank-you kisses to the editors, submitters and all my fellow Plasticians. I love it here SO MUCH - Plastic is a marvelous way for a freelancer to pass the slow days without turning his/her brains into mashed potatoes with daytime TV or video games. Viva discourse. Hey, for old times' sake, can we bring back the animated .gif of the guy barfing into a wastepaper bin? Perfect is the enemy of good.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

30.  plastic = metapoesis of free cyberspace.   by vurt       at Thu 16 Jan 1:03pm score of 1.5 intriguing     Well, as a sunshine plastician--but a relatively long-lived one (started June 2001), who reads too much media and cultural theory--I offer the following: The public sphere, according to Habermas, came into being in the 17th-18th century in most places in Europe and (North) America. In places like Grub Street and the salons of Paris--and, incidentally, concomitant with the spread of the mass printing press--small groups of people would get together and discuss the day's news, etc. Thereby over time there arose a public voice that was greater than the sum of its parts, and via "the power of the better argument" (Habermas' term is "kulturraisonnierend," I believe, for those of you with some German), was able to impact the governments of these countries and in some cases (France mostly) to effect a revolution. The kicker to Habermas' argument, and the one most people don't get to since it comes right at the end of the chewy and big-word-prone _Structural Transformation of the Public Sphere_, is that it was precisely the inclusivity of the sphere that destroyed it; as "the masses" were included, so did the content decline into consumerism and away from the public good. (1) ... (Not much happens throughout the 19th and most of the 20th century for the purposes of this story.) ... Fast forward to the 1990s. Enjoying a promising-if-slightly-sketchy (run by/for intellectuals but based on ARPANET, I mean) nascence, the internet appears to offer the medium via which Habermas' idealized public sphere, of "zero-sum" information exchange and debate exporessly for the public good. However, it increasingly falls prey to advertising, spam, and all the suckiness of mainstream media. Enter plastic--you, me, all of us. While I am mythologizing our nature and effect to some (probably great) degree, I do think the discursive space we create here is important. On plastic you have to back up your points with facts; baseless bitchery will mostly get you nowhere (this also is idealized, but in my experience I'd say it's how it works at least 80% of the time). In a number of ways, we are kulturraisonnierend in action--and, one could be so bold as to suggest, one possible model for what a free information society might look like in years to come. Raw data is useless without its matrices of context and meaning. These are what plastic provides. After my time as a plastician, I am better-read, better-informed, and more prone to careful argumentation than I was before, and than a number of my colleagues in grad school. Thanks everyone, especially the folks who have forced me to reexamine my beliefs. And, it bears saying again, hats off and pints up to Carl. cheers all, Karl *** (1) Yes, Habermas is a bit of an elitist in this regard. And if you're terminally bored / fall in behind the motorcade and lock the doors / money money!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

83.  So...   by MrFadedGlory       at Thu 16 Jan 8:57pm score of 1   in reply to comment 30     The kicker to Habermas' argument, and the one most people don't get to since it comes right at the end of the chewy and big-word-prone _Structural Transformation of the Public Sphere_, is that it was precisely the inclusivity of the sphere that destroyed it; as "the masses" were included, so did the content decline into consumerism and away from the public good. Would it be your assertion that our cross linking and communal requirement for supported statements, negates this effect, or merely slows it down? I am wondering if the quality of the links will degrade first and then the argument, or whether we have been immunized against the possibility. Perhaps Habermans' statement is really just a statement of entropy which is present in all things, just on different scales. On this 2nd anniversary, I would assert that we are increasing the requirement for quality rather than decreasing it. When I joined in July of 2002, a one link story would sale through the Q. Now, you really need 2, but are better off with three.. Perhaps this is just reflective of the 'expansion' phase of the entropic process? ::Faded aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   96.  Indeed, perhaps.   by vurt       at Fri 17 Jan 9:42am score of 1   in reply to comment 83     Would it be your assertion that our cross linking and communal requirement for supported statements, negates this effect, or merely slows it down?--neither, actually, although the epigones of plastic decline (see, e.g., FatRatBastard, above) might have it differently. Plastic might be that cultural/intellectual rara avis, like fugazi or Eric Hobsbawm, that actually gets better as it ages. What I was getting at is, in my more optimistic moments, It's nice to think plastic could serve as an open argumentative space in which the better argument reigns supreme. Thus the overformal, but I believe accurate, "metapoetics" of the title--it's not about the data itself, but the information space which makes it equally accessible, and forces all hypotheses to be both supported and subject to critique by peers, that I argue validates plastic. Good point re entropy--that's nowhere near Habermas' intentions (he's a Marxist of the European SD flava), but it definitely ought to be taken into account. I think the signal-to-noise problem is another mootable reason for decline. One thing I think might be a problem is that we might scare off new users--it seems like very few people mod without filters, which I think is the only fair way to go. But, to adapt however briefly a vulgar-Marxist ontology, the coporate control of media looks a lot like the monopoly capitalism of the late capitalist period--Habermas might not be all that far off, either. good talking with you, MrFaded. P.S. Your desert island bats .500 IMO. Ayn Rand sucks. discuss? And if you're terminally bored / fall in behind the motorcade and lock the doors / money money!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

31.  It's a good site   by sglover910       at Thu 16 Jan 1:03pm score of 1     But I have a question about karma scores: Why don't comments start at zero points, instead of one? An argument isn't merely nay-sayings and contradictions! M. Python   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

67.  Re: It's a good site   by hoser       at Thu 16 Jan 4:57pm score of 1   in reply to comment 31     You can read Slashdot's FAQ for information on how the whole moderating thing got started over there, since it's the model that Plastic is based on. I don't know why it starts at one, but I'm guessing it's so you can filter comments that are mostly annoying or were modded down by a petty, closed-minded moderator (posts with a score of zero) and also filter those that are really annoying, such as "first posts" or lame "all your base" jokes (posts with a score of negative one). It doesn't make that big a deal on Plastic because our discussions are pretty small. But when you get a discussion with 200+ comments, as happens over on Slashdot regularly, it's nice to have a lot of control over what's filtered and what isn't. Hope that helps!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   69.  Read The FAQ?   by uncarved block       at Thu 16 Jan 5:11pm score of 1   in reply to comment 31     You can get Carl's take on it. Has to do with default settings-- starting at 1 is your bonus for undergoing the strain of joining. I've also heard that there's a bit of a hang over from slashdot, where the intelligent comments (again, from what I heard) start at 2, so many members there set their filters accordingly. Same model, different site-- though I can say, from personal testing (set filter to 3, then 4, then 5, and see how the 'feel' of the comments changed), that before the .5 change by Carl, the statistically best way to get modded up was humour, with it going about 55/45 in favor of liberal posts for the rest (hey, I was unemployed, had a lot of time to kill . . .) Haven't repeated the experiment since, as I've been employed full time, but I doubt much has changed. Except the dearth of 5 rated posts . . . Eschew Obfuscation Assiduously   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   80.  Re: Read The FAQ?   by sglover910       at Thu 16 Jan 7:50pm score of 1   in reply to comment 69     Ah, good points.... I wasn't really thinking of filter settings at all; instead, I was confused about karma accrual, which is of course the most important thing. As far as that goes, every comment with a score of one may as well be zero, since it adds nothing to one's worth, er, karma. Like you, I've noticed that, all else being equal, one-liners and amusing posts are more likely to score well. The location of a post is crucial as well -- comments early in a thread are more likely to get karma. I think there's also a bit of a stone-rolling-downhill effect -- once a comment gets above, say +2, it tends to draw more eyes, and rack up still more points. A more equitable scheme would sum all the karma granted each day, and distribute it equally among everyone who typed anything in that period. That way even blithering idiots could rack up impressive scores. Of course, I've noticed that being a blithering doesn't necessarily mean that you can't get at least a few hundred.... An argument isn't merely nay-sayings and contradictions! M. Python   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

34.  Oh where are the Plasticians of yesteryear?   by spiderwire       at Thu 16 Jan 1:12pm score of 2 compelling     I've been here for almost the entire two years, and while I will say that yes, the content has slipped a bit, I don't think that it's necessarily for the worse. (And technically, it's a few orders of magnitude better--go Carl!) Me, I come here for a few good, specific, relatively intelligent discussions, then run over to metafilter and fark for the interesting/funny/stupid news sans intelligent commentary. I do wish that more relevant news could get through the submission queue, and quicker, as some of the discussions here do seem--to me--a little too small + insignificant to be relevant (or warrant posting on the front page). The John Gray discussion seems like a good example. I also think that the queue-readers are a bit too reluctant to recycle old conversations. I wouldn't mind seeing a new Iraq discussion once every few weeks; sure some of it would be asinine--what do you expect?--but I'm not getting to have intelligent conversations about it anywhere else (not even in real life), and I could have that here. Claiming that a subject has been "done to death" is too easy an excuse--the situation in Iraq (and why not North Korea? you'll have to excuse me, these are the only good examples I could come up with off the top of my head) is still developing and merits discussion. But what I really want to know is, where the hell did Old_Sailor go? Plastic needs more quirky token posters. I miss old tales of the sea--I still go back and read those posts. For that matter, where's Ash Poopem? I haven't seen anything from him in a while, either. And as long as I'm dredging up the past: Carl, what's Joey up to nowadays? Inquiring minds want to know. I feel a presence. Another warrior is on the mesa.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

64.  Re: Oh where are the Plasticians of yesteryear?   by irrahe       at Thu 16 Jan 4:37pm score of 1   in reply to comment 34     Speaking of MIA Polymers, what about NineNine the porn guy? And Bart the Gun Guy has been silent for a while too. Did I miss the kiss-off goodbye post some time back? Or did they get a name change operation? Intergalactic Planetary   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   75.  Mother of All Websites!   by Saddam Hussein       at Thu 16 Jan 7:16pm score of 1   in reply to comment 34     The great and powerful People of the Republic of IRAQ demand that ALL infidels read Plastic! Death to all pretenders and UN spies who would deny Plastic, the milk and honey of the Great World Wide Web, the sweet wine and olives of the Fertile Crescent of Technology, the very CRADLE OF ONLINE CIVILIZATION, to the Brave and Indignant Republican Guard of Baghdad, City of 3000 years! (p.s. Kisses to Satan.)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

39.  Token for posterity.   by marduk_kur       at Thu 16 Jan 2:14pm score of 1     Happy Birthday Plastic. Thanks Carl. Peace all. Sad lad, he really couldn't handle starting from scratch on the very first level. But he died the death of a warrior.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

42.  Wow, Two Years...   by SacredGroundChuck       at Thu 16 Jan 2:17pm score of 1     ...I feel like a pioneer, joining May of 2001. Never been an early joiner before. First, the questions: 1) What happened to the PlasticMail shirts? Are they officially dead and I didn't get the memo? 2) What happened to the original "War" story logo, with the soldier's head flying off? Is that much less true today than when it was first used? Now, to the huzzahs... Here's to us, the whole lotta Plasticians, shining light into the dark spaces, moving the freezer-burned box of peas, searching through the dust rhinos behind the TV, looking anywhere for a good story. Here's to our crafty, razor-sharp minds and wits. And here's to our never taking ourselves too seriously. And here's to the editors - who have a thankless task, rummaging through the drooled-upon drivel that the unwashed send through the aether, daring to think that it just might be interesting. Your task is no longer thankless - thank you. So there! And finally, equator-sized thanks to Carl, without whom we would have done something productive, like start hockey teams for the blind, read Proust to cats, and cure the common cold. Now, slide we down the razor blade that is year three! "Did you know that the human brain is the only computer in the universe made of meat?"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

45.  No! ... No no no no NO!   by TheMCP       at Thu 16 Jan 2:30pm score of 1.5 brilliant     No! No! No! No! No! Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? ... I figured if Plastic is going into its terrible twos, somebody had to say it. End of line.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

49.  yeah...um..plastic.   by kegking       at Thu 16 Jan 2:55pm score of 1 modappeal     Well I guess this is the place to rant about plastic It might as well be here. Before the .5 modding system we would see +5 comments and be worthy and now its like who is really modding? The land is scattered 1's, few 2, rare 3, almost non-existent 4 and the elusive 5. I've skimmed thru this thread and see a whole lots 1's and 1.5's but odds are there are a 5 in here. This is plastic here people, its ok to be a little loose with the modding points!! More moderation points plleeeeezzzeeee.....   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

51.  time flies...   by 1fastdog       at Thu 16 Jan 2:56pm score of 1     ...when you're having fun. Haven't quite been here 2 years (I'm a few months shy) but, I've been around long enough to have witnessed the regime change (sometimes referred to as BC-Before Carl and AC-After Carl) and the ever changing techsploitation of the site. These have all been good things despite what a few revisionist historians would have you believe. Sure, there's been some bugs and glitches and hiccups and whatnot. And that's good in a way - ya can't have the good without having the bad, and sometimes the ugly, too (or perhaps you appreciate the good all that much more after dealing with an episode of the bad and/or the ugly). What's good about Plastic? Well, it's a great conduit for information as well as being a fascinating glimpse into the opinionated minds of its users. That's why I stop in every day - to see what people are shouting about from their little Plastic soapboxes©. It's a lotta fun to see how people interpret the latest news and views from all the nooks and crannies available on the Net. I inevitably learn something new here everyday...whether I want to or not :-) Now's as good a time as any for everyone to show their appreciation to our underthanked editors by sendin' 'em a private thank you or givin' em a shoutout here and now. So, 1000 thanks to the eds, who somehow pull this everchanging info delivery system into a coherent, well thought out accounting of the news of the day! Quick shoutout to my Plastic Pals and thanks to them for their always interesting messages and conversation... Happy Birthday Plastic in your honor I'm tippin' the bottle & bitin' the lime! Tipping The Bottle & Biting The Lime   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

59.  And as for the next topic...   by mycena       at Thu 16 Jan 3:25pm score of 1     Lawyers learn from comics while CNN chief resigns due to pucker up porn czar axed for doin' a Sambo Shimmy in U.S. Ads in Muslim World Bomb. Hehehehe I must be really drunk now -- Here's to you, Plastic! (and how i love your titles)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

61.  Thanks Carl!   by sulli       at Thu 16 Jan 3:33pm score of 1     That's all I gotta say at the moment. Plastic is as addictive as good coffee and twice as informative. Thanks! Tout abus sera puni   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

62.  Re: Thanks Carl!   by elforman       at Thu 16 Jan 3:40pm score of 1   in reply to comment 61     Plastic is as addictive as good coffee and twice as informative. Perhaps, but I can think of one thing for which coffee would be far superior to Plastic...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

65.  I'll be Fucked   by keta       at Thu 16 Jan 4:50pm score of 1     Two years? Bogs balls, that explains the incredibly massive pile of work here on my desk that continues to grow. Plastic has, and continues to be, a wonderful place to learn, and be amused (and sometimes even teach, and be amusing.) But best of all, it's a great place to rattle chains. And for a cynical fucker like me...well, it's a Bogsend. A tip of the hat to Carl and all the editors, submitters, and posters. And a big raspberry for all the AI posters who don't have the courage of their convictions to even hide behind a user name. But hey, every community needs their poltroons, I suppose. Cheers, own your words...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

70.  The Plastic Paradox   by xTrapL8       at Thu 16 Jan 5:12pm score of 1     I think it was uncarved block upthread who described Plastic as (I'm paraphrasing) a place where those of us addicted to 500 word essays gather. Brilliant. Many who have been dragged in here kicking and screaming over the course of the last two years are writers. Now here's the paradox (or is it the Catch-22?): in order to practise and hone our writing skills, we visit and post on Plastic. As a result, we become embroiled in fascinating and stimulating debates, and before we know it, we have a cadre of Plastic Pals who message us. Being socially responsible animals, we message back -- of course -- and without realising it at first, find ourselves part of a vibrant, bona fide thriving community. Complete with irritating tangents like emotional attachments and expectations of reciprocity and stuff. Then, all of a sudden, we're Plastizens (or Plastitutes, or Polymers, or Plasticants, what have you) and we have no time to actually write any more in the (ahem) so-called Real World, and we forget to eat (not that we can afford food now, anyway) as all of our freelance opportunities wither and die on the vine, and sleep is disturbed by sporadic regretful flashes as we conjure up the [moderate] box in our mind's eye and second or third guess our injudicious use of mod points the day before, and we fall inexorably, slowly, into the uniform grey of depression, and we gnaw mentally at bizarre and tangential anxieties, peripheral minutiae, and... My god! Plastic is 14 dog years old! And every damn time I try to walk away, it nips at my departing heels; and every time -- instead of kicking out at it and continuing outta here -- I turn around and see those sad and strangely defiant puppy dog eyes and scoop it up and say "Plastic, what was I thinking? I could never just walk away from you, I'm so sorry..." Thanks Carl, thanks editors, thanks Plastic Pals, thanks to all involved thus far. Stay or go? The late Joe Strummer finally made up his mind and answered definitively. Me, I'm still struggling with the damn question. "I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones." -- John Cage   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

71.  Internet Archive   by hoser       at Thu 16 Jan 5:17pm score of 1.5 informative     Those who want to look back even farther into Plastic's past -- all the way back to the year two-thousand and one -- should check out the Plastic section at the Internet Archive. It's full of neat stuff.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

86.  Stankow principle...   by Stuart       at Thu 16 Jan 10:23pm score of 2 brilliant     Remember the Stankow Principle : All Plastic threads regarding the action of Local, State, and Federal Government will eventually criticise George W Bush. This is why I still lurk Plastic. "It is not perfectly clear from your syntax which side of the pony you are trying to ride here." - AI   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

88.  everyone blames the chief....   by jbou       at Thu 16 Jan 10:31pm score of 1   in reply to comment 86     even if it isn't his fault. Just ask Carl. Arguments have no chance against petrified training; they wear it as little as the waves wear a cliff.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   91.  Re: Stankow principle...   by stankow       at Fri 17 Jan 4:40am score of 1   in reply to comment 86     Stankow's Corollary: All Plastic threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with the actions of local, state or federal government have a better than 50 percent chance of eventually criticizing George W. Bush.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

87.  I love this site!   by mjackso1       at Thu 16 Jan 10:30pm score of 1     This is where I come for a large portion of my news and commentary. I don't know how I ever did without it. member since: Sun 14 Jan 2001   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

98.  Re: I love this site!   by tdahnsn       at Fri 17 Jan 10:19am score of 1   in reply to comment 87     Well, if you were like me you masturbated a whole lot more. Oh! You said 'how', not 'what'! Nevermind. Why? What's the most callous thing you've said today?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

89.  Here..   by StratKat       at Thu 16 Jan 10:37pm score of 1     I like it here. I like it so much, I sent Carl some money to help out. I thought he might throw me a few karmas. But he didn't. S'ok. I'll keep coming here. I like it here. You take the slide rule, I'll take the bottleneck....   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

90.  Re: Here..   by wetzel       at Fri 17 Jan 3:34am score of 1   in reply to comment 89     so much depends upon a chocolate factory and its staff orange oompa loompas *   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   95.  Re: Here..   by timnet       at Fri 17 Jan 7:55am score of 1   in reply to comment 89     Supporting Plastic Monetarily is great I'll buy a T-shirt Karma points at rest Reads: 1, no moderations Average indeed What I want to know Is when will Plastic begin A haiku contest? "I feel like I wouldn't like me if I met me." -- Tegan and Sara   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   106.  And I quoth..   by StratKat       at Fri 17 Jan 10:56pm score of 1   in reply to comment 95     What I want to know Is when will Plastic begin A haiku contest? I doth hopeth Carl doth quoth the Raven on that one. Evermore. You take the slide rule, I'll take the bottleneck....   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

101.  Happy Birthday Plastic!!   by bigeyes       at Fri 17 Jan 12:56pm score of 1     I miss this so much, but alas, being self-employed takes all the fun out of screwing off at work so I can read Plastic! Glad to see you're all alive and kicking! hugs and kisses, and many happy returns! bigeyes   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]