Forget The 'Red Eye' — How A Dream Newspaper For Young People Would Look
	found on The Columbia Journalism Review written by NH4, edited by John (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Fri 10 Jan 5:33am
		"What do young people want to read, and why? The Columbia Journalism Review set out to find the answers, recruiting sixty-seven of the most thoughtful young journalists in newspapers around the country, representing eighteen newspapers from the Oregonian to the Philadelphia Inquirer, from the Minneapolis City Pages to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. As different groups of young journalists discussed their Dream Newspaper, the things they agreed on were unexpected," NH4 writes. "There was an emphasis on 'better journalism': more pounding the pavement, more questioning of authority, more diversity in sources and staffing, less wire copy, and continuing training (weekly session to explain, e.g., the basics of tax law). Many called for killing the editorial page ('newspapers are owned by large companies now and large companies don't have souls or opinions'). Almost everyone wanted more international coverage ('we all realize that we're part of a global system, and we want to know how we fit into that, and what the similarities and differences are between ourselves and our peers worldwide').

	"Alongside breaking foreign news, there was general agreement on the need for more stories about people ('engage us with tales of what Iraqis our age are thinking... What are their fears? Do individual under-thirties hate us? And why, exactly? Give a rundown of their typical day, and how it's changed, if at all, with threats of war'). Worship at the altar of objectivity would be decidedly optional, and there would be more magazine-style narrative pieces, written in a more conversational tone and in less formal language. Everyone seemed to want more examination of pop culture - or, as one group put it, 'more subversive analysis of pop culture.' They wanted coverage of web sites, video games, technology, subcultures and alternative life-styles, how to spend leisure time, manage money, get a loan, or decorate their apartments. "But how would the Dream Newspaper look? The tabloid format was most popular, with more graphics and photographs ('the most effective story-telling technique wins'). Most wanted lots of 'quick hits' on page one, with the full stories running inside. Visuals were extremely important: most would use eye-catching drawings and paintings as well as photographs, and caption-writing would be elevated to an art ('young readers are visual readers')."

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1.  Misleading subjects   by 0.5robo       at Fri 10 Jan 5:56am score of 3 astute     Like the CJR piece says, this is not about an ideal newspaper FOR young people, or what young people want to read. They asked rookie journalists already on their way into the system (possibly even already graduated from j-school) what kind of paper they wanted to write. Not quite the same thing... any reason to believe that 20-something journalists are more in touch with what their peers want to read than 30 or 40-something journalists are?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  Re: Misleading subjects   by joshv       at Fri 10 Jan 6:17am score of 0.5   in reply to comment 1     Well, the Red Eye is wildly popular in Chicago here. Of course that may be because they give it away for free, and you can't enter an L station without some drone shoving one into your hands. I doubt anyone would actually buy the thing though. -josh   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   4.  Re: Misleading subjects   by Anonymous Idiot       at Fri 10 Jan 7:38am score of 0.5 compelling   in reply to comment 2     The Red Eye is a waste of a tree. The other "red" newspaper is just as bad. Flaky, bland and shallow newreporting on mostly sports and pop culture. THAT wouldn't be so bad if it was a bit more than a bad Maxim blurbish article. The Red newpapers in Chicago are incredibly stupid. I refuse them despite it being free. Give me the Reader anytime.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   3.  Re: Misleading subjects   by Screename2000       at Fri 10 Jan 7:37am score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 1     this is not about an ideal newspaper FOR young people Yes, but the write-up does indicate that many of the interviewees responded to that concern: "caption-writing would be elevated to an art ('young readers are visual readers')." Basically, it seems young journalists want to continue the path of the Maximization of news. By the way, aren't TV news magazines ("Dateline," "20/20," "60 Minutes II," let alone the "Inside Edition's") already on this "new" wave?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   13.  Amen...   by JackH       at Fri 10 Jan 11:07am score of 1.5 helpful   in reply to comment 1     Journalists have a tendency to be a bit narcissistic anyways, but all too often, they will think their own lives, their own socioeconomic status, and the circles they move in accurately represent the daily lives of, well, everyone. Thomas Friedman of the New York Times is Exhibit A of this tendency - his foreign affairs reporting seemingly consists of nothing more than reading the Economist while travelling in an air-conditioned limousine to meet local representatives of American multinationals and local politicians. Media outlets (at least in the U.S.) also have a strong flocking instinct - supposedly in competition with one another, they'll exhibit remarkably similar editorial stands. A great example is the Seattle newspaper landscape. You have the Times and the Post-Intelligencer, and then you have the Seattle Weekly and the Stranger as the main free weeklies. Barring rare hot-button issues like the recent monorail vote, though, they've grown surprisingly identical in editorial outlook in the past year or so. For example, all four routinely blast Seattle "lefties", and increasingly often, Seattle as a whole (one has to wonder why some of the more strident, like the Weekly's Knute Berger, doesn't simply move if he despises the city so much). Not that I have any particular love for certain segments of the local left, but the remarkable unanimity of the media makes one wonder if the editors haven't all been replaced by Pod People. Sorry... got off topic a little there... "If you demonstrate a personality deficit in comparison to the likes of John Kerry, you've got major problems" - Anon   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   24.  Re: Amen...   by plutocracywatch       at Fri 10 Jan 1:03pm score of 1   in reply to comment 13     Yes, the pod people. Ted Turner grows them at his buffalo ranch in Montana. Because he kept raising his pod prices, Time Warner bought him out and hence the feud with Rupert Murdoch. read   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   26.  Re: Amen...   by Blue Dot       at Fri 10 Jan 1:25pm score of 1   in reply to comment 13     Media outlets (at least in the U.S.) also have a strong flocking instinct - supposedly in competition with one another, they'll exhibit remarkably similar editorial stands. I think part of that is because the US issues are traditionally seen in polar terms: Republican or Democrat, yes or no, etc., in keeping with our two-party heritage. Another reason media outlets sometimes mirror others is because the media is self-aware. When I read George Will's column and he mentions the New York Times editorial board, it's obvious that what one media outlet releases is absorbed by other media sources and they incorporate it into their picture of "the news". I think this is fitting, cause the media are such an important part of our culture--they MAKE news as much as they REPORT it--so I have made allowances for some homogeneity. No matter how shrewd an editor one is it's hard to ignore the voice calling on high, be it the Post, the Times, or the Journal.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   25.  Re: Misleading subjects   by plutocracywatch       at Fri 10 Jan 1:16pm score of 1   in reply to comment 1     Excellent point. The writer's agenda is not necessarily the readers. For example, the write-up speaks of more international coverage. In this age of 24/7 cable and the internet, the news junkie doesn't rely on his local daily for international news. My local, the Toledo Blade, has reinvented itself as a print version of cable, reporting from a wide variety of fronts while focusing on local and regional issues and people. The problem with the paper is that it is oppressively ruthless within its circulation area and smugly politically correct liberal outside its circulation area. read   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   31.  Re: Misleading subjects   by Petronius       at Fri 10 Jan 1:41pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     I read the Chicago Tribune every day, but I also most days check out both the Guardian and the Telegraph to get a perspective on Euro-news. I suppose I should find a good Asian site in English to cover that hemisphere. Any suggestions? The point is that I don't necessarily need my paper to change its coverage. The coverage is there, if I but take the time to click on it. What rescues us from insignificance is the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers. Carl Sagan   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   37.  Re: Misleading subjects   by plutocracywatch       at Fri 10 Jan 2:50pm score of 1   in reply to comment 31     Chicago is big enough to support a paper of the caliber of the "Trib" (although all truth be told as someone who grew up in Chicago and lived there again after college in the mid 70's and then again in 1985, I'm not a fan of that paper). The great papers that can afford to cover or at least print international news are located in the major cities or are national papers like the WSJ or CS Monitor or Canada's Globe and Mail. Thank God the internet allows access to the world's press.       You have no idea how grim the radio is in places like Toledo, and not just for news talk. NPR is like a lifeline. So it ain't just the printed press.       Newslink.org is a place to go to read papers from all over the world. read   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   40.  Re: Misleading subjects   by mrmoog       at Fri 10 Jan 3:59pm score of 1.5 informative   in reply to comment 31     I suppose I should find a good Asian site in English to cover that hemisphere. Any suggestions? Japan Times Online is a pretty good English language website based out of Japan. It's focus tends to stick pretty closely to things that affect Japan, but there is some coverage of other countries.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  Get Real, Please   by Anonymous Idiot       at Fri 10 Jan 8:28am score of 0.5 astute     "The Dream Newspaper would include more international coverage than today's average newspaper. As it turns out, the young people in our groups - far from being disengaged or self-involved, as the prevailing wisdom goes - see themselves very much as part of a global community, and they want a newspaper that reflects this." There's no way a reasonable, informed, educated person is going to believe that the target demographic for "Jackass" wants in-debt reportage of the Kenyan election or analysis of the Italian economy.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  Re: Get Real, Please   by Anonymous Idiot       at Fri 10 Jan 8:59am score of 0.5 disingenuous   in reply to comment 5     Elitist, snob asshole. I watch Jackass and I'd love to see deeper coverage of foreign issues. You highbrow, asshat, fucknozzle, wanglord snob.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   18.  Re: Get Real, Please   by sglover910       at Fri 10 Jan 12:36pm score of 2 scholarly   in reply to comment 8     You highbrow, asshat, fucknozzle, wanglord snob. Ah, good to see readers of the International Herald-Tribune contributing to the discussion. An argument isn't merely nay-sayings and contradictions! M. Python   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   22.  Re: Get Real, Please   by SimpsonsQuoteBot       at Fri 10 Jan 12:51pm score of 1   in reply to comment 8     Wait, I thought "wanglord" was a compliment? WWD4D?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   19.  Re: Get Real, Please   by Screename2000       at Fri 10 Jan 12:45pm score of 1.5 astute   in reply to comment 5     There's no way a reasonable, informed, educated person is going to believe that the target demographic for "Jackass" wants in-debt reportage of the Kenyan election or analysis of the Italian economy. I'm sure they don't. They probably want less news and more stories about people ('engage us with tales of what Iraqis our age are thinking... What are their fears? Do individual under-thirties hate us? And why, exactly? Give a rundown of their typical day, and how it's changed, if at all, with threats of war').   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   47.  "In-debt reportage" - NOT a typo/mistake   by Brian Jones       at Sat 11 Jan 7:22am score of 1   in reply to comment 5     Because in-debt is what these "ideal" newspapers will be after printing up a 250-page daily paper including all these recommended additions. Cheap crass attention-whoring plug goes here.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

6.  The high road... and the low road   by coalcracker       at Fri 10 Jan 8:38am score of 2 compelling     These comments are just the newest reflection of trends that journalists have been aware of for years. Most editors, whether they're in their 20s or 50s, understand this. But. When a big newspaper attempts to use some of these ideas to boost readership (and I would argue that doing these things, if done correctly, would interest jaded 40-year-olds as much as they would 20-year-olds), the end result is invariably something as embarrassing as the two new papers in Chicago. (I was going to link to the Red Eye's painfully self-aware, faux 90s-hep editor bios, but sadly someone with a shred of self-awareness took them off their site). More painful still are attempts to make newspapers fun for even younger readers ("What's up with that Afghanistan thing? Which Pokemon character reminds you of Saddam?") People want a point of view that helps makes sense of confusing and often bland issues, compelling writing and, yes, more visuals (and smarter use of visuals). Focus groups have told newspaper editors for years that they don't care about international news, but that's only because newspapers haven't figured out a way to engage their readers with it ("Angolan Premier Won't Resign"). And regardless of what a focus group might tell you, running pictures of J-Lo on the front page isn't going to cut it. Ironically, you don't hear editors of alternative newspapers, like the Chicago Reader or the City Papers, complaining that young people don't read. That's because they've been doing these things right, or at least better than their mainstream counterparts, for years.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

9.  Re: Chicago Reader   by irrahe       at Fri 10 Jan 9:31am score of 0.5 irrelevant   in reply to comment 6     Off topic, but I can't stand The Reader. The only reason the (backwards 'R') Reader is popular is for apartment listings, the Straight Dope, and Dan Savage. Those cover articles drone on longer than the phone book, and the design is just as interesting. Then there's the matter of Johnathan Rosenbloom, who's never seen a movie in English that's tolerable. If it isn't a movie of gay coming-of-age story about human rights in Iran with (alledged) references to an obscure French director, it's worthless. I've always felt that the better arts weekly was NewCity. Too bad the economy and crappy ad sales have turned it into a shell of its former self. I've seen company newsletters with more content than it has today - not to say the quality is all gone, but the quantity is skeletal. see also http://www.newcity.com/newcity/content/current/index.html">newcity.com Intergalactic Planetary   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   23.  Re: Chicago Reader   by jhe       at Fri 10 Jan 1:01pm score of 1   in reply to comment 9     I have to agree with you about the Reader -- the articles are way too long. I do remember Milwaukee's more often than the Milwaukee Journal when I was a youngster.) "Because a person's a person, no matter how small" -- Theodore Geisel   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   29.  Re: Chicago Reader   by peabody       at Fri 10 Jan 1:38pm score of 1   in reply to comment 9     The only reason the (backwards 'R') Reader is popular... That's not true! Some us pick it up for the upcoming concerts listings and News of the Weird too. That said, I've looked over the 'Red' papers and thought, this isn't targeted toward young people, it's targeted toward stupid people. Bland and shallow is letting them off easy. Both are like getting all your news from the top of the hour break on a radio station. Everything is a synopsis of stuff I already knew or straight-from-the-press-release cruft about assorted manufactured celebs that I don't really care about. The Onion seems to offer a greater grasp of the truth of our lives and times. I'm not quite a jaded 40 yr old yet, but I've been a newspaper reader since I was 12. My comprehension levels have improved, but what I find compelling hasn't changed drastically. I'm finding all newsprint pubs increasingly irrelevant. I want to read stuff that doesn't sound like fluff and pandering to the LCD. I want to hear about cultural trends that don't involve astro turf marketing and patronizing the paper's advertisers. I want to see stories about Dow Chemical's continuing Bhopal PR debacle - something that I've seen covered on several websites, but not mentioned anywhere in a 'real' print publication. I want to hear political news and analysis that isn't straight from Karl Rove's perspective and isn't so US centric. I want to hear non-hysterical science reporting that offers a little context. Maybe it's too late for newspapers. These days, people who want details can go directly to a specialty publication that offers real analysis and considered reporting and people who just want headlines can get them from radio or TV.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   39.  Re: Chicago Reader   by irrahe       at Fri 10 Jan 3:19pm score of 1   in reply to comment 29     You're right - NOTW and the show / movie listings were a big part what made the Reader worth while. But now I can get listings and reviews a hundred different ways and places, and I don't have to wait for Thursday afternoons either. BuIf the Reader was to, say, have a newsroom and be an 'all growed up' newspaper; it'd be uninteresting as dried shit. We'd still only pick it up either out of obligation, or for the concert listings. I want that real reporting they're talking about. I do want an editorial page. I don't necessarily care as much about what Joe or Jane ForeignCountry have to say about their daily life as I do what Mr/Ms Prime Minister-President-Fearless Leader does. And I do want some graphic design. Not that clip art shit in USA today, and nothing spazzy like early Wired, but some smart, clean layout and page design. Something to make the interesting words I'm reading interesting to look at too. Intergalactic Planetary   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   16.  Re: The high road... and the low road   by sglover910       at Fri 10 Jan 12:33pm score of 1   in reply to comment 6     Ironically, you don't hear editors of alternative newspapers, like the Chicago Reader or the City Papers, complaining that young people don't read. That's because they've been doing these things right, or at least better than their mainstream counterparts, for years. I've never been to Chicago, so I haven't seen either of these papers. But if they're anything like the "alternative" papers I've seen in other cities, they have about as much credibility as People magazine. There's a reason that their newsstand price is exactly zero, y'know..... An argument isn't merely nay-sayings and contradictions! M. Python   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   45.  Re: The high road... and the low road   by UnbelieverDjak       at Fri 10 Jan 10:32pm score of 1   in reply to comment 16     In Reno it's the Reno News & Review(not much distinguished from the Chico or Sacramento versions). It's better than the Reno Gazette Journal, faint praise that may be. If anything, it's worth picking it up for red meat.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  Trying to be hip and urban   by gonzocanuck       at Fri 10 Jan 8:53am score of 2 informative     In a slightly related tangent, Advertising Age had an interesting article on the "Red" newspapers - Red Eye and Red Streak - and how they are having problems marketing themselves to their supposed demographic. You've got to coax him slow, that's the only way that he'll confess.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

10.  Already Being Done   by keta       at Fri 10 Jan 9:50am score of 1.5 astute     "But how would the Dream Newspaper look? The tabloid format was most popular, with more graphics and photographs ('the most effective story-telling technique wins'). Most wanted lots of 'quick hits' on page one, with the full stories running inside. Visuals were extremely important: most would use eye-catching drawings and paintings as well as photographs, and caption-writing would be elevated to an art ('young readers are visual readers')." It's not a newspaper, but this description sure sounds like Maxim. How fucking depressing is that? own your words...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Re: Already Being Done   by nikele       at Fri 10 Jan 10:28am score of 1.5 astute   in reply to comment 10     Instead of Maxim, I think that these journalists are more eager to write for something like the Boston Phoenix or The Village Voice. The description of their dream newspaper fits these publications nearly perfectly. As a member of their target demographic (a 23 year old urban resident), I will admit that these newspapers are really good for some things like entertainment reviews and apartment listings, but they are not as good at reporting the news, especially when it comes to economic issues. It seems like the journalists don't fully understand the issues and don't bother contacting real authorities. Many called for killing the editorial page ('newspapers are owned by large companies now and large companies don't have souls or opinions'). This particular statement really bothers me. The editorial pages are one of the best parts of a good newspaper, such as the NY Times, Washington Post, or the Wall Street Journal. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the opinions expressed by the editors, but at least many alternative views are expressed in the Letters to the Editor. Personally, the alternative papers are good for entertainment news and reviews, but I'll stick to authoritative sources for real news coverage.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  How about the LA Times and the LA Weekly?   by sideshow       at Fri 10 Jan 10:28am score of 1     I've read both pretty regularly since I was about 16 (I'm 22 now). The LA Weekly is the local free weekly with a liberal slant. Most people read it for their calender section because every movie, show, play, art exhibit, etc, in LA shows up in there. The people I know either wouldn't read the newspaper no matter how hip it was made to be or read the LA Weekly. Maybe LA has it down, or maybe these guys are fighting a lost cause. Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

14.  Vomit.   by sulli       at Fri 10 Jan 11:39am score of 1.5 brilliant     I'm 31. If I wanted more "quick hits" on page one and flashy grafx I would read USA Today. Which I only look at when it shows up at my hotel room door. And if I wanted any more pop-culture coverage than there already is in every paper, I would immediately walk to the center of the Golden Gate Bridge and take a dive. How can anyone want more pop culture? Isn't everyone already sick to death of it? Fuck. And if I wanted less objective stories, I'd read the San Francisco Bay Guardian or watch Fox News. Or just read Slashdot. (Though I am a junkie for that.) But I actually would sort of like to hear the news, ya know, as it happened. And in depth. And with interesting angles on how it's relevant, but without a fucking agenda. If today's young journalists are too fucking lazy to write such things, may I suggest a career change? Tout abus sera puni   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

15.  This is useless   by crowley       at Fri 10 Jan 12:21pm score of 1     This story is such utter fluff. A group were asked about how they would like to change a system that they are integrating themselves into. Instead, why not ask someone who's not part of this system what they would want in a newspaper? That would have slightly more validity.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

33.  Re: This is useless   by chancaca       at Fri 10 Jan 2:17pm score of 1   in reply to comment 15     Yes, fluff it is. A depressing story. These so-called journalists are yearning for entertainment, not information. Let's just call it infotainment. Cute angles. Cool graphics. When the emergence of rock-n-roll bands in "liberated" Afghanistan is seen as a significant social phenomenon worthy of close journalistic scrutiny (that's an example from the piece) then we might as well study Brittney Spears for more insight into our own domestic political crises. Am I the only one who noticed how her new "I'm Hot 4U" video release coincided with whole Trent Lott thing? Kewl! Killing Confusion by Eliminating Options   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

17.  the Dream Newspaper...   by landonair       at Fri 10 Jan 12:34pm score of 1     Tyler Brule, the guy that started 'Wallpaper' magazine, said he was leaving to start a global newspaper for young-ish people. I could see his newspaper being in line with the criteria listed in the writeup, looking more like a sober Wallpaper then Maxim. Wallpaper had a section for a while called the 'Global Agenda' which was probably a test pattern for what he had in mind. Slick, modern graphics hopefully won't necessarily mean dumbed-down coverage. If the writing's good I think it could work. "It's so easy to say things that are so idealistic without reasoning and thinking them out in the big picture"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

20.  Who cares what they want to read?   by BrotherMcKenzie       at Fri 10 Jan 12:47pm score of 1.5 brilliant     The question should be - how do we get them to turn out and vote?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

21.  Maybe I'm missing something, but....   by sglover910       at Fri 10 Jan 12:48pm score of 1     ...aren't they essentially describing the sort of dumbed-down pablum that Time and Newsweek have offered for years, glommed on to the kind of dubious first-person idiocy that Salon tried to make a living from? Lotsa pretty pictures, cute graphics -- hell, cute everything -- a relentless focus on "how we feel", and authors whose main talent is an ability to write about themselves. Come to think of it, Maureen Dowd would be a natural here.... An argument isn't merely nay-sayings and contradictions! M. Python   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

27.  Most adults would want this too   by pyite       at Fri 10 Jan 1:26pm score of 1.5 succinct     My dream newspaper would be a daily version of the Economist, with better coverage of the sport I enjoy most, but which is ignored by every paper: tennis. But I have a hard enough time keeping up with the weekly version. Mark Ignorance is the real gateway drug   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

28.  As a member of the target demographic...   by shadarr       at Fri 10 Jan 1:28pm score of 1     I would not read the drivel these people are proposing. The first part sounded good, with more "emphasis on 'better journalism': more pounding the pavement, more questioning of authority, more diversity in sources and staffing, less wire copy, and continuing training...". However, they lost me at "worship at the altar of objectivity would be decidedly optional". I don't need more opinions. This is the internet age, where I can go to a thousand boards like Plastic and get all the opinion I can stomach. I read newspapers to get facts, to be better informed and to better form my own opinions. What I want in a news source is less like Maxim and more like the BBC or CBC coverage. Real journalism, investigative journalism, that whole "pounding the pavement" thing they mentioned. When you really dig and find out the whole story, you can't express it in bullet points and clipart. I don't need a newspaper to give me a dumbed-down, everyman version of everything under the sun. For sports, I can read the wire reports on ESPN.com. For pop culture, there are websites and forums dedicated to any niche genre I want to know about. What there isn't a lot of is real news.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

43.  Re: As a member of the target demographic...   by TamLin       at Fri 10 Jan 9:04pm score of 1   in reply to comment 28     However, they lost me at "worship at the altar of objectivity would be decidedly optional". I disagree. Not because you aren't right about the abundance of opinion these days, but because I don't think you can be objective, unless all you do is repeat what someone in power/authority said, and attribute it to them. But even if that's all they do, newspapaers/magazines/whatever have a limited amount of space, or, even assuming an infinite medium, such as the internet, a limited amount of prime space. Someone has to choose how the articles will be arranged, and that act in and of itself distorts things. So I'd argue that bias is inevitable, and instead of trying to be "fair and balanced," admit you have a conservative/liberal/libertarian/whatever viewpoint, and be done with it. I'd even argue that doing this might improve the news media in the US. After all, if news reporting is "just the facts," why do you need more than one source of information? In theory, at least, they're all going to give you the same information. If you acknowledge that reporters and editors are biased, you can make a much stronger case for a multitude of media voices. "Oh, who am I kidding? The ramparts suck. They were sucky, sucky ramparts." - Stephen Colbert, The Daily Show   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

30.  eXile   by aturley       at Fri 10 Jan 1:38pm score of 1     It sounds like these kids want to write for the eXile. World news. Flashy pictures. Witty captions. It just means you have to move to Russia. It probably also helps to have access to some cash. andy Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between irony and sincerity.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

32.  I agree with some of this   by That-Old-So-And-So       at Fri 10 Jan 1:52pm score of 1.5 compelling     but I definitely agree with the 'death to editorials' comment. This is the one things about newspapers that drives me crazy - I read newspapers for news, not for someone else's opinion. It also drives me crazy the way that newspapers stick editorials in places other than the editorials page! At least if they're all in one place I can ignore them. Up with News! Down with Opinions!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

48.  Re: I agree with some of this   by rdww       at Sat 11 Jan 5:00pm score of 1   in reply to comment 32     AgreeAgree on ending the newspaper's own editorials. The idea that a newspaper's editorial board frets over things like which electoral candidates they'll endorse (because, of course, the readers are just dying for such "guidance") would be laughable if not so arrogant. Rather, we need far more reader-supplied editorials and letters to the editor.       As to not being so hung up on "objectivity," a more overtly editorial slant is that last thing our reliably liberal media needs.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   49.  Re: I agree with some of this   by dogslife       at Sat 11 Jan 9:57pm score of 1   in reply to comment 32     Up with News! Down with Opinions! You mean 'up with news' that doesn't wear its bias for all to see? Call me crazy but in a decreasingly literate culture I think it would be best if 'news' kept its 'opinion' out in the open for all to see. Pure 'news' is a myth. The only reason anyone believes in it is because they think all that messy 'opinion' has been safely contained on the editorial page. Mottos are for losers.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

34.  Attention, Snarky Plasticians!   by MAYORBOB       at Fri 10 Jan 2:23pm score of 1.5 funny     According to the article, "caption-writing would be elevated to an art ('young readers are visual readers')". Of course how many times can they use a headline or caption that says "Bush is STOOOOOPID" or "Ashcroft is EEEEVIL"? Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

36.  Re: Attention, Snarky Plasticians!   by peabody       at Fri 10 Jan 2:49pm score of 1   in reply to comment 34     I see your snark and I'll raise you one. Like the sun rising in the east, would either of these statements still be considered news?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   38.  Re: Attention, Snarky Plasticians!   by MAYORBOB       at Fri 10 Jan 2:52pm score of 1   in reply to comment 36     And I'll raise your snark back one. Here's a headline for you: "Sun Doesn't Rise In East. Earth Spins Toward The West" Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

35.  They just came up with the new 'People!'   by Baxter2000       at Fri 10 Jan 2:33pm score of 1     Most of the calls for stories sounded like "I want to see me in Afghanistan if I was Afghan" or "How would I decorate my house in Iceland?" or "Do Twentysomethings in Iran really feel Twentysomething, what with all that Islam and Koran stuff?" They want to see themselves in any story. Think Boomers were narcissistic? You'll love their Generation Y kids. Sure, let's leave Objectivity as a starting point, and embrace the anecdotal, it's so much more engaging. Don't figure out how to analyze an issue, the New Daily has a pullout that tells you how to vote without all that painful thinking. Tired of all those wordy words? How about better graphics and charts that do the reading for you! International news is too... well, International. Who can possibly understand a fifty year old man from Brazil, anyway? Show me a completely atypical foreign youth that resembles me instead! And what's with all that news... uh, how do you call it, analysis? I want to know what they're wearing in the Phillipines, not what the Secretary means when he says something I don't understand anyhow. And what the heck is wrong with dropping the F bomb once in a while? It's so much easier than finding the right word that my readers don't have the vocabulary for and will ignore in favor of the cute info-graphic in the sidebar. Teach me how to cook, but don't challenge me with technique, I have a microwave. Spak is an idiot, Seper gives Boomer hating a bad name, Heyamoto could be clever if she could lose the university feel good connecting reaching out talk. Regime change begins at home.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

41.  Re: They just came up with the new 'People!'   by newkindakick       at Fri 10 Jan 7:46pm score of 1   in reply to comment 35     A curiosity about other people elsewhere and how they live is the opposite of narcissism. (That those people might be presented as "other young people" is just a starting point, a common ground.) Also, a widespread feeling that people in Afghanistan and Iran, deep down, might be a lot like you and me...well, that's a positive thing. A desire to sometimes see a "fuck" in your daily paper is simply a desire to see one of the most common words in the language make an occasional appearance in journalism. When newspapers scrupulously avoid so common and useful a word, it detracts from their claim to be presenting you with reality, or "the news". Reality and "the news" include the F-word, and provide countless invitations for its use, and any credible newspaper should include the word too. Besides, "fuck" rarely replaces "the right word" - most often it just replaces needless cant and cliches. The desire for graphics? Crazy! Who needs a picture, when you can have a thousand words! Seriously, though, why not let a chart do your reading for you, when it can provide all the necessary information? There's a reason charts exist. The desire to avoid "objectvitiy" stems from the common perception that objectivity is a sham a lot of the time anyway - instead of presenting us with an "objective" viewpoint that actually has a hidden bias, just provide us with a plurality of openly-biased views, and let us figure things out for ourselves. The idea is to make the paper, the news, and the world more comprehensible to people, say, my age - not to jettison actual reportage in favor of fashion tips. It's not "I Want to see me in Afghanistan if I was Afghan", it's "What Is Life Like for an Afghan?". Understanding other people from other places is a damned good foundation for understanding the news from other places - a foundation that is lacking in traditional papers, which provide all of the info and little of the context. This Dream Newspaper would still provide the news - the difference is that is would also provide background to help you understand it. There's also something to be said for showing Afghans and Angolans as human beings, rather than as statistics in the third graf. I wouldn't normally do this kinda thing   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

42.  Journalism start-ups.   by superdude       at Fri 10 Jan 8:48pm score of 1     They've been doing these focus group-ish things for at least 20 years, and they never, ever work, because the things that people say they want (more international coverage) are never the same as what they really want (Denise Richards in a catsuit). Perhaps instead of doing focus groups, the newspaper chains should take a venture capital approach. Instead of asking young journalists to create a hypothetical "Dream Newspaper," they could provide funding to some aspiring publishers to create a Dream Newspaper for real. Give a first round of funding to 50 small, youth-oriented newspapers; give a second round to the ones that succeed, etc.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

44.  Two rules for my dream newspaper.   by Kaiju       at Fri 10 Jan 9:15pm score of 1.5 brilliant     1. No news stories written in the future tense. 2. No stories based on any press conference or PR release.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

46.  Re: Two rules for my dream newspaper.   by onid70       at Sat 11 Jan 1:57am score of 1   in reply to comment 44     2. No stories based on any press conference or PR release. I did an internship at a local (Chicago) television station and one of my jobs was to sort through the PR releases that were regularly (almost continuously) faxed to the station. One day I picked up the paper and I found on page three a story that was, despite the writer rearranging some words, word for word the same as a press release that I had read a day or so earlier. I was floored. That meant that the "writer" regurgitated someones PR release and put no thought or work into it...I thought it was horrible. I know now that this is a regular occurrence in newsrooms all over. Please forgive my naivete. I was 20 at the time.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

50.  Trying, but falling short of the ideal   by Mike Burtner       at Sun 12 Jan 12:39am score of 1     I can provide a 'subsersive analysis of pop culture'. I know a lot about 'web sites, video games, technology, subcultures and alternate life-styles'. Especially that last one. I'm always looking for an alternate lifestyle. These things are fine for debate and conversation, and one reason I enjoy the format here at plastic. But is this journalism? I only turn to print publications for deeper coverage about things that are significant to my life, and threads that will change history, if only incrementally. The analysis of disparate facts about a common thread is really the unravelling of a detective story, whether local or global. The focal point of the story is a means of holding an audience's attention, but it really does depend on the locality of the audience. There is a great moment in The Shipping News in which the editor of his newspaper asks Kevin Spacey's character what headline he would use, when looking at the stormy Newfoundland horizon. 'Learn to think in headlines' says one of his colleagues. 'Look over there, what do you see?' 'Uh...I can see some grey clouds gathering on the point,' says Quoyle. 'No...WILD STORM THREATENS ISLAND DESTRUCTION,' says his mentor. 'Uh...what if the storm doesn't destroy anything?' says Quoyle. 'Well then, 'ISLAND SPARED.' What I take away from this is that, no matter what, the news must be fact-based reporting, with an analysis that is significant to the target audience. I hear some of these things in the stated ideals of these young journalists, but the Dream Newspaper doesn't deliver them. Commenting on life around us with easily digested bytes and substituting visuals that beg the subjective eye for in-debth analysis seems to give their ideals short shrift. "It is easy to love someone if you don't know them very well" - Charles Bukowski   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]