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| | | | | Between A (VVS) Rock And A Hard Place — Hip Hop Sells Out | | | | | found on The Nation
written by Tim Malieckal, edited by Humberto (Plastic) [ read unedited ]
posted Sun 5 Jan 8:41am | | | | |
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"Rap has been given over to cocaine-cooking, cartoon-watching, Rakim-quoting, gold-rims-coveting, death-worshiping young 'uns. One might even ask whether rap has abandoned the revolution"
"While the above assertion may put too fine a point on it, The Nation offers readers a taste of how hip hop's cognoscenti look at trends in rap music," writes Tim Malieckal. "In this case, Jeff Chang explores the devolution of 'conscious' hip hop, from the pioneering rhyming of Grandmaster Flash's 'The Message' to modern hip hop feminism:"
"[The] block parties where hip-hop began in the early 1970s were not demonstrations for justice, they were celebrations of survival. Hip-hop culture simply reflected what the people wanted and needed--escape . . . In the new global entertainment industry of the 1990s, rap became a hot commodity. But even as the marketing dollars flowed into youth of color communities, major labels searched for ways to capture the authenticity without the militancy . . . The "hip-hop lifestyle" is now available for purchase in every suburban mall".
"Personally, I found Chang's effort to be sloppy; all the same, it serves as a good starting point to examine the state of millennial hip-hop. While Chang cites Philly mainstays The Roots as an example of 'conscious' rappers, I would argue their single 'Break You Off' is a white flag of surrender, as they succumb to the J.Lo-wraparound-sunglass-wearing ethos of peacock preening and Cristal poppin' bubblegum schlock."
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| | | "Meanwhile, at the other end of hip hop's spectrum, Detroit MC 50 Cent spent New Year's Eve in jail for pistol and body-armor possession, despite claims in his hit 'Wanksta' that "I ain't no gangsta/ I ain't no acta/ I ain't no hit man/ Me I'm just Me, Me". If 'conscious' rappers sell out for fear of fading away, gangsta rappers soft-sell thug life for more spins, and Puerto Rican princesses claim to be Jenny from the Block, (don't be fooled by the rocks that she got), is there still any authenticity to hip hop at all? Or is simply music without a message?
"This Plastician laments the decline of hip hop hooks that don't mention Cadillac Escalades sitting on 20" rims, conspicuous consumption of champagne in the club, male minks, pimps wearing Prada, and the requisite menage a trois with modeling mamis - but that's not to say that what passes for 'conscious' rap is any more entertaining. Hip Hop Heads, answer the call : is there still a place for 'real rap' in a hip hop culture more concerned with corporate carats than verbal virtuosity?" |
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[ more plastic... ] |
| | | | | | | 1. It is product. | | | | by zabuni |  | | | at Sun 5 Jan 9:02am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Most of the examples you list, especially those of Jennifer Lopez, and mixed advertised and sculpted for maximum public approval. They are this way because that maximizes the profits of the recording company that sponsors them. The reason that this is a new phenomenon is that before the growth of hip hop, the record industry regarded them as a elephant regards and ant, that is to say, not at all.
Are there alternatives to the recording industry's hip hop products? Of course. One might as well ask are there any alternatives to in hard rock, as the rise of bands like Metallica and Korn have sucked the soul out of the industry. Or country, alternative or any other music. They are there. I am not familiar with hip hop, but there is bound to be enough indie stars in obscurity who write music to make music, and who don't care about making money or being "true".
It is as it always was. As long people wish to make music, that music will be made.
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| | | | | | 5. Re: It is product. | | | | by deeluxx | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 1:20pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 1 | | | | | |
Don't lump Metallica and Korn into the same category. Metallica may be a poor caricature of what they used to be, but at least what they used to be was a great rock band that helped pave the way for a lot music that never would have been heard on mainstream radio without them. Bands like Nirvana owe a lot to Metallica. What has Korn ever done but be a cheap knock-off of better bands from better days?
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| | | | | 16. Re: It is product. | | | | by Jeff The Unhip | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 7:32am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 5 | | | | | |
Metallica may be a poor caricature of what they used to be, but at least what they used to be was a great rock band that helped pave the way for a lot music that never would have been heard on mainstream radio without them.
I wonder. To me, Metallica represents the beginning (at least in RAWK) of "authenticity" as outward gesture, a position which I think has done a lot of damage to rock in general. Authenticity doesn't come from the instruments or tempos or sounds you use or the fabric of your pants or the subject matter of your lyrics--it comes from doing what you love.
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| | | | | 34. Re: It is product. | | | | by electroboy | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:47pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 5 | | | | | |
Bands like Nirvana owe a lot to Metallica.
Maybe as a cautionary tale of what not to do. Metallica hasn't done anything good since ...And Justice For All.
Keep your eyes open and your wallet in your front pocket --Raekwon the Chef
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| | | | | | 2. MTV = Making Things Vapid | | | | by timnet | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 9:59am | score of 1.5 astute | | | | | | |
At the risk of overgeneralizing, hip hop's slide into commercialization corresponds with MTV putting it over into the realm of megaexposure.
Run-DMC rapped about their neighborhood, urban problems, social justice; today's rappers talk about their limos, their hos, their fly clothes. NWA brought a militant viewpoint to bear that, while scary to middle America, captured the ghetto experience; P-Diddly rhapsodizes (or, I should say, has guest rappers rhapsodize) about mansions and private jets and other fame-related epherma that no inner-city youth could ever identify with.
Why the change? Because MTV would rather show good-looking, slick rappers in their trendy clothes while scantily clad women dance around them than an authentic look at what's happening in the inner cities (because the latter, after all, doesn't move merchandise). Popular rap is about as relevant to actual hip hop as Shania Twain is to actual country music. It's oversimplifying to say that MTV kills everything that it loves (or, more appropriately, that makes it a profit), but this is its history. The network, rightly, embraced Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden and was a major player in breaking the Seattle sound; but soon enough the channel was choked by pale likenesses Silverchair, Seven Mary Three and the indestructable Creed.
Anything that's on MTV, the network that (ironically) made "reality shows" famous, has as little to do with authenticity as it does with, well, musicianship. To paraphrase Ani DiFranco, it's all about cross-marketing and selling shoes -- not about music, and definitely not about authenticity. We live in a society that craves the latest, the hippest, the fastest and the simplest, where MTV is the cultural arbiter and actual performing arts channels can't get out of the gate. Hip hop is the latest, most visual casualty of the MTVication of society, and it won't be the last.
"I feel like I wouldn't like me if I met me." -- Tegan and Sara
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| | | | | | 13. Re: MTV = Making Things Vapid | | | | by Clandestino | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 11:06pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 2 | | | | | |
>>Run-DMC rapped about their neighborhood, urban problems, social justice; today's rappers talk about their limos, their hos, their fly clothes.
Run-DMC also rapped about their Adidas in so blatant an ad-disguised-as-video that MTV has forever since wiped out all logos from videos.
As much as I pine for someone of Run-DMC or KRS-One's stature to come up again, let's not fool ourselves. Rap has always been a people's music. At times, it's meant glorifying the corporation/drug/trend of the week popular with the people. Heck, "White Lines" was originally meant to romanticize coke, not to condemn it (the "don't do it" lyrics were added later).
Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad
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| | | | | 32. Indie...the other pop music | | | | by Iluminati | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:18pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 2 | | | | | |
You indie bastard, die, die, die. I'm sick of your arrogant kind ruining music, especially underground/indie types who condemn music the second anyone outside of their exclusive circle likes it.
[rant on}
You know, the indie scene is the only musical scene even more dishonest than pop music. At least people that are into the pop scene admit they chase trends because they're popular. It might be shallow, but it's honest at least. However, the indie is dominated by people who judge the value of something inversely by the number of people who like it and the records they sell...and then DARE push as originality and creativity. If I ruled the world, I would get all these indie idiots into one mass Woodstock-style concert, then get Al-Qaeda to take them out with a conveniently placed terrorist attack, but that's just me
[/rant]
Look, let people have some fun with music. It's not always about exclusivity and obscurity. Let the people have their music. A democracy demands no less.
When I'm not watching Fox News, I'm listening to my main man Marley Marl on Power 105.1!!!
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| | | | | 41. honesty? | | | | by BrownJenkin | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 1:28pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 32 | | | | | |
Pop music is the most contrived crap out there. If you think Avril Lavigne is a real skater chick and Christina Aguilera would actually fuck you, keep thinking it and maybe it will happen.
It's not about keeping people out of the scene, but more about preserving the music.
Here's how it goes:
You've got an album that the scene is digging. You could be content with artistic license and sell a few records for 10 years. A&R guy walks up, offers you some bullshit amount to sign with him, and you do.
Record Company signs the band, they control all the promotion and marketing for said band. They own you. You're a product. Your song five times an hour? Okay. Appearance on TRL? Do it or we're going to court. And so on and so forth until the public and the record company gets tired of your one hooky song. then they own the rights to your next three albums, effectively ruining your chances for music stardom when they won't release those. So when you sell out, it's not the indie scene that ruined you but the mainstream public. One person has a lot to say on the subject more articulately than I do.
Using people up and throwing them away. That's fun, isn't it?
You people read too many comic books
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| | | | | 58. INDIER THAN THOU - MC Frontalot | | | | by Ozymandias | | | | at Mon 27 Jan 5:09pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 32 | | | | | |
INDIER THAN THOU (2001) - MC Frontalot
I'm so indie that my shirt don't fit
you wonder out loud 'frontalot yo why you come so ill-equipped?'
because being all prepared to get on the mic is selling out
and I ain't even about to relinquish indie clout
I look confused, like I just got out of bed,
my rhyme style reflects this
use my overdeveloped sense of irony to deflect dis-
missiles, exploding all around me
unpromoted, don't know how you found me
soundly situated in obscurityland
famous in inverse proportion to how cool I am
and should I ever garner triple-digit fans
you can tell me then there's someone I ain't indier than
delving deep into my letterbox when I discovered
fanmail for MC FRONT, it kinda hovered
before my vision, I made a decision to open it up
it said "yo frontalot, you suck!"
oh whew, I was worried for a second that I'd started to earn love
seeing all my indie points burned up
next you know I'm meeting pop stars in stretched cars
doing the soundtrack for the wendy's tie-in with jar jar
paying rent on time, owning things,
suing napster with my best friend sting
it's like a nightmare (yep) cause that ain't nerdcore (nope)
yes I'm indier than thou within my nerdcore flow
and if you're slow on the uptake, I'll lay it out
hipsterism is a religion to which you gotta be devout
must be seen as in between unpopular and hated
or else get excommunicated
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| | | | | 45. Re: honesty? | | | | by Iluminati | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 3:47pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 41 | | | | | |
First of all, I don't get how fantasizing about fucking Christina Aguilera is prima facie a Bad Thing (tm). (Then again, she has a thing for Black guys, and since I'm one, I might have half a shot. ;-) ) But seriously, so long as people realize it's a fantasy, it can be fun for goodness sake. :) Don't you underground people have any fun with music for music's sake? Or is it about how elite you can be?
However, you are wrong. You took an example of a record company screwing over a band with artistic freedom, then twisted it to fit your argument that popularity ruins music. Allow me to remind you that the record industry is not the public. At best, all they do is chase trends and try to make a profit off of it. They don't ultimately dictate taste.
However, I can remind you that the underground movement (not the music mind you, but the people who make up the core fan base) tends to be as elitist as hell. In fact, in hip-hop, these people are often derisively referred to as underground snobs. Let me give you an example from my college days. A couple of years ago, Jurassic 5 was to play this big concert on campus. Now, I'm not a big fan of Jurassic 5; their derivative old-school hip-hop has all the trappings and yet none of the energy. So I made the suggestion on a campus e-mail list that another act be invited, such as Scarface or UGK. Before I go on to note the reaction, let me say that neither Scarface or UGK are TRL material. At the same time, they do have decent sales and a solid mainstream fan base. They've even put out the very occasional top 40 hit.
You would have though I'd praised Hitler in a Synagogue by the reaction I got. Everyone claimed that Scarface and UGK were "commercial" rappers, despite the fact they'd maintained their artistic integrity. Why were they accused of being sell-outs? Because they had the audacity to be popular outside of the small underground circle sometime since WWII.
Look, I actually LIKE underground hip-hop. Most of it is great music, and the good-to-crap ratio is better than commercial music. However, the jerks who think their status is inversely tied to the artist sales of the people they listen to turn me off bigtime. And Heaven forbid that you listen to an artist who committed the sin of having a video appearing on TRL, irrespective of who else you listen to. You mind as well have raped their mother from their reactions.
When I'm not watching Fox News, I'm listening to my main man Marley Marl on Power 105.1!!!
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| | | | | | 3. Jeff Chang | | | | by 1fastdog | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 10:21am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Jeff has been lamenting the demise of conscious hip-hop and the lack of protestations from its artists for quite some time. While he tends towards hyperbole more than is necessary, he still strikes a rich vein of truth in that hip-hop has found its voices battling each other over trifling insults and disses instead of protesting the actions of "the man".
Here's some stuff from Jeff Chang.
My take?
Hip-hop has been taken over by those who are image conscious rather than those who are community conscious. Not that this a trend peculiar only to hip-hop - rock and pop are also victims of fashion awareness trumping sociopolitical meaning. Those who used to carry the banner for politically based music, such as U2 or Public Enemy have either moved on to less politicized music (U2) or have been relegated to has-been status (Public Enemy). Whether or not current artists in any genre have enough inclination and resources to capture both the image conscious and the politically aware remains to be seen. Other than Steve Earle (who is never gonna appeal to the fad and fashion crowd) and 2nd tier (popularity wise) rappers like Mos Def and the like, I don't think most artists have the willingness to take on the system.
Tipping The Bottle & Biting The Lime
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| | | | | | 4. Uh lady | | | | by jbou | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 10:29am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
This is so silly, music has always had it's cheezy, shallow side, why should hip hop be any different. This liberal crap about how blacks need to be fighting the power 24/7 in their music, movies, books, and lives is bullshit, get a grip lady not all people think alike, and if P Diddy wants to be a shallow guy who sips champagne, and sleeps around it's his choice, and it's my choice to listen to Talieb Kwali, Mos Def, and all the other rappers that appeal to my tastes. Why would any person want to always be identified with the poor struggling masses? There is a time to fight, and there is a time to party, even the politically aware Bob Dylan knows this. Now somebody fetch me a bottle of Cristal, and bring me Beyonce Knowles so I can get my groove on.
Arguments have no chance against petrified training; they wear it as little as the waves wear a cliff.
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| | | | | | | 6. Sturgeon's Law | | | | by slaphappy | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 2:18pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Sturgeon's law states:
90% of everything is crap.
So it is with hip-hop. It's fad-addled crap, product produced and marketed to the masses, with escapist fantasy in mind. In the early '90s, it was gangsta rap. Then came playas, and then thug life. Now it's bling bling. And it's all crap.
However, Jurassic 5 is sill spinning the tunes. Blackalicious put out an amazing album this year that had shit/all to do with "keepin' it real" and everything to keep it in reality. Two nights out of every week, the local radio station plays underground hip-hop that is intellectually engaging and musically masterfull. (The other five nights in the time slot are dominated by "underground" gangsta/thug/bling wannabees who think that being massively unpopular is the only criteria for being a good underground act.)
Then there's the Insane Clown Posse, who manages to be more violent than any gangsta rapper ever was (only with knives, axes and meat cleavers), more derogatory to women than any playa album I can think of(with the full undersanding that they are assholes who will never "get any"), and more material than any bling bling gold-chain addict (only they obsess over drinking generic soda rather than Cristal or Hennessy.)
And they are the weirdest fucking act you can put onto your CD player. Except for the the French Celtic folk/rap group, Maneau.
So, you need to ignore the mainstream, and dig deep for the nuggets of gold in the mountains of crap. You will be rewarded with Deltron 30303 and the Herbalizer for your troubles.
slap*happy
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| | | | | | 8. Re: Sturgeon's Law | | | | by luna bizarre | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 3:41pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 6 | | | | | |
Kudos to you slaphappy! So much hip hop is crap, as with any other flavour of music, you need to skim the fluffy stuff of the top to get to the goodies underneath (the proverbial nuggets of gold in mountains of crap!). Try the Roots Maneuva, Saul Williams (Slam poet turned musician), Motion Man, Mr. Scruff, Inden (funky-ass Japanese hip hop artist who collaborated with DJ Krush) or almost anything from the Ninja Tune label. These gold nuggets lyrically won't persuade you to put a cap in yo mamma's ass, but they will definitely reward you with tasty beats and pieces.
~The sleep of reason produces monsters~
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| | | | | 9. Re: Sturgeon's Law | | | | by slaphappy | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 5:04pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 8 | | | | | |
Damn, I knew Saul Williams once-upon-a-time. He was brilliant in a bad movie ("Slam") and one of the shining stars in the "Slam Nation" documentary. (I was closer to the New England crowd than the Mouth Almighty/NuYorican crew, tho. My sister slammed at two Nationals, once for Worcester and once for Providence. She's the one who introduced me to Saul at Conneticut.)
I knew he was on the Blackalicious album (a pleasant surprise!) but I didn't know he had made the move to music as a full time gig. Ah. So many people in my life I've lost track of...
slap*happy
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| | | | | 12. Re: Sturgeon's Law | | | | by luna bizarre | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 10:10pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 9 | | | | | |
Yeah, his album is titled "Amethyst Rock Star". Haven't seen Slam, but I just saw Slamnation...a lot of his songs off the album are just his poems put to music. I saw him live last year...All I can say is that he is one beautiful man (in every sense of the word). Apparently Vancouver, BC has a slam crew too (never knew this till I watched Slamnation)...perhaps I should check it out sometime!
~The sleep of reason produces monsters~
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| | | | | 38. Re: Sturgeon's Law | | | | by k0s | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 1:08pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 6 | | | | | |
Then there's the Insane Clown Posse, who manages to be more violent than any gangsta rapper ever was (only with knives, axes and meat cleavers), more derogatory to women than any playa album I can think of(with the full undersanding that they are assholes who will never "get any"), and more material than any bling bling gold-chain addict (only they obsess over drinking generic soda rather than Cristal or Hennessy.)
ICP constantly says they are not hip-hop or rap. Please don't lump them into the hip-hop community, they don't want to be hip-hop and the hip-hop community doesn't want them to be associated with hip-hop either.
Visit www. seriouslythough.com
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| | | | | 50. Re: Sturgeon's Law | | | | by slaphappy | | | | at Tue 7 Jan 1:48am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 38 | | | | | |
ICP constantly says they are not hip-hop or rap. Please don't lump them into the hip-hop community, they don't want to be hip-hop and the hip-hop community doesn't want them to be associated with hip-hop either.
That is the most profound bit of wishful thinking I've seen all week. Do they rap? Yes. Do they rap without guitars? On half the tracks on any given album, yes. Guess what? They aren't "rock and rhyme" or any other bullshit, arbitrary sub-genre, they are full-bore hip-hop, whether they, or you, or anyone else cares to admit it or not. Plainly put, if Public Enemy and Eminem are Rap and Hip Hop, so is the Insane Clown Posse.
Yes, they are weird, but then again, no-one seems to doubt Del the Funky Homosapien is a rapper after the masterful science-fiction exploration of Deltron 3030. Ya know, he raps with a rock act, too, the current one is Gorillaz, but he was also on the Judgement Night soundtrack.
Fuck, man Maneau raps to freaking bagpipes in goddamn french! Because they don't go in for the O.G., playa cultcha, bling-bling, borderline black-face stereotype rappers of all races are expected to adopt does not mean that they are neither rap nor hip-hop.
Expand your perceptions.
slap*happy
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| | | | | 55. Re: Sturgeon's Law | | | | by k0s | | | | at Tue 7 Jan 2:48pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 50 | | | | | |
That is the most profound bit of wishful thinking I've seen all week. Do they rap? Yes. Do they rap without guitars? On half the tracks on any given album, yes. Guess what? They aren't "rock and rhyme" or any other bullshit, arbitrary sub-genre, they are full-bore hip-hop, whether they, or you, or anyone else cares to admit it or not. Plainly put, if Public Enemy and Eminem are Rap and Hip Hop, so is the Insane Clown Posse.
Ahhh, I see now, we have an ICP fan here who desperately wants to be "down" with hip-hop culture. FYI, your profile filed with clown references gave you away. Anyhow, if we go by your definition then Linkin Park is hip-hop. Do they borrow elements from hip-hop, yes. Are they hip-hop, no. Also, by your definition then Aerosmith is hip-hop because they did a song with Run-DMC (RIP Jam Master Jay). I'm not even going to explain how they aren't. Conversely, Puff is now rock because he did a song with Jimmy Page. He also did a track with members from System of a Down. I don't pretend he's rock. Hip-hop is a culture, and no it isn't the "O.G., playa cultcha, bling-bling, borderline black-face" you dubbed it as.
Visit www. seriouslythough.com
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| | | | | | 7. It's Bigger Than Hip-Hop | | | | by armaxmore | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 3:05pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Even though it's been said before, I'll say it again. Support Your Local Music Scene! I live in DC, and half of my cd collection contains local artist. I have an early cd from this DC based Rock Act who appeared in that Pepsi Blue commercial. They'll be back in DC on January 12th with Smiles and Southstar and Avril Lavigne. Back to the topic at hand, I have attend many hip-hop shows. I saw some shows at this popular club. I also saw local hip hip-hop acts like , Head Roc, Poem-cees Opus Aboken, B-Girl Manifesto, CrossRhodes and other at venue like The Black Cat, Club 5 and The Velvet Lounge. I also attend many shows hosted by Groove Gumbo and MN8 productions. What's happening in music in general is quite simple. The style is being pushed ahead of the substance, and they quantity is more important than quality. That's how this game is played. We can complain about or turn off the radio, turn off the tv and get out of the house to check out you local music scene.
Talk is Cheap! Free Speech Isn't!
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| | | | | | 15. Re: It's Bigger Than Hip-Hop | | | | by mattegrape | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:06am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 7 | | | | | |
Ah, I loved DC's scene before I moved west a few years back. Getting out of the house is key! I've found out about some great stuff from random shows and hell, you'll meet other people who are into music as well. ;)
For non-DC dwellers planning a visit: State of the Union and the other spots on U Street are more focused on hip-hop than the Black Cat or the Velvet Lounge, which are more indie rock.
All good spots though. Don't forget about the shows at the local universities either. ;)
ciao / matte
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| | | | | 36. Re: It's Bigger Than Hip-Hop | | | | by electroboy | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:59pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 7 | | | | | |
....who appeared in that Pepsi Blue commercial. They'll be back in DC on January 12th with Smiles and Southstar and Avril Lavigne.
Ugh. Pepsi Blue and Avril Lavigne? No thank you. But don't forget Cex. He's from Baltimore, but he plays a few DC shows too.
Keep your eyes open and your wallet in your front pocket --Raekwon the Chef
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| | | | | | 11. Cognoscenti? | | | | by Militant Elvis | | | | at Sun 5 Jan 9:50pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
"hip hop's cognoscenti"? Excuse me? I enjoy my NWA and House Of Pain about as much as the next guy, but rap and cognoscenti go together like drunken frat members and power tools.
I like my hip-hop full of raw language sprinkled with the occasional racially/sexually offensive phrases. Keep your Cognoscenti away from my rap MP3 folder please.
I suspect that you have very little hands-on knowledge of rape. --davidpalter
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| | | | | | 17. Back off The Roots | | | | by jimray | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 8:51am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
I would argue their single 'Break You Off' is a white flag of surrender, as they succumb to the J.Lo-wraparound-sunglass-wearing ethos of peacock preening and Cristal poppin' bubblegum schlock.
You gotta be kidding me, right? Have you listened to the rest of Phrenology? Thought @ Work and The Seed (2.0) are amazing. Just because a 'conscious' hip hop group (whatever the fuck that means) puts out a single doesn't mean they've sold out and are suddenly relegated to the status of J.Lo. Pop music would be glorious if it was consistently as good as the worst of The Roots, which Break You Off is far from.
Furthermore, The Roots have been putting out less 'conscious' music since they started. Silent Treatment? You Ain't Fly? Hell, You Got Me with Erykah Badu, which arguably won them the Grammy, could be lumped into the same category. Just because they do some feel good tracks and aren't always taking every single rhyme to the next level doesn't mean they've sold out. It means they've got other shit on their minds.
"You're not thinking, you're just being logical" Bohr to Einstein during a debate on quantum mechanics
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| | | | | | 19. Rap is OLD | | | | by Floorpie | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 9:36am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Rap is old. And that's not a derogatory comment. It's a statement of fact. As we know: with age comes change.
Once upon a time KRS-1, Grandmaster Flash and Chuck D had to party for their right to fight. And the fight wasn't only the daily one, the one about individual pride, community pride, advancement of disenfranchised urban youth and straightforward desire to be recognised as productive members of American society. Back in the seventies and early eighties (twenty some years ago) the music had to fight to be recognised as valid. So all of the daily push, push, push from writing what you knew came through as genuinely real.
However, now that the artform no longer has to justify itself (it's inarguably entrenched in contemporary popular music - and rightly so) it's proponents are at will to lighten up. They can go off on flights of fancy because they no longer need to 'keep it real'.
They might say that that is exactly what they're doing, but you know as well as I do that it's a phrase as cliched as "put your hands in the air and wave 'em like you just don't care".
Are punks really as angry/bored as they were in 1976? Do blues bands really have the blues? What's hip about contemporary hippies?
Was The Delorian really what Henry Ford had in mind when the first Model T rolled off the production line?
Fair play to new artists who perform pantomime versions of what was once a sapling breaking through a beaten earth floor. Their music is safe, they can do what ever they like. And if that means prentending to be an Uzi toting Huggie Bear for the 21st Century, so be it. Thankfully we have plenty of acts who still produce good hip hop, but even then it bares little resemblance to the acts lamented by Tim.
Only a scoundrel would go to bed before twelve - Dr Samuel Johnson
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| | | | | | 20. Rap will eat itself | | | | by Utini | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 10:00am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Back in the days of The Chronic, parties didn't stop until 6 in the morning. Ten years later in Atlanta they don't stop until 8 in the morning. Pretty soon it's going to be 2 in the afternoon.
Nobody has time to subscribe to a revolution!
Plastics' answer to a question no one asked.
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| | | | | | 37. Re: Rap will eat itself | | | | by electroboy | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 1:03pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 20 | | | | | |
Yeah, but as rappers get older they'll probably start at 6 in the morning and end by 2 in the afternoon so they can make the early bird special at the Sizzler.
Keep your eyes open and your wallet in your front pocket --Raekwon the Chef
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| | | | | | 22. Inevitable | | | | by GoLdFiNgR | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 10:13am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
The problem nowadays is simply the difference between the mainstream and the underground. Conscious rap exists, but you have to find it, because it doesn't sell. Kids don't want to worry about what's going on in the world, they'd rather hear a rap artist insult a rival rap artist while wearing more jewelery than Mr T. The same goes for any style of music. Punk is inherently conscious, rebellious and at times very involved politically, but in the mainstream punk bands like Blink 182 and Green Day get by with a bunch of dirty jokes and a few swear words here and there. Kids eat it up. And kids are the focus. They're the ones spending. Furthermore, mainstream rap is less about lyrical content and more about the beat that accompanies it. If it's catchy then the artist simply needs to come up with a few simple rhymes, it doesn't even matter if they rhyme the same word or even make up their own words. In fact, the latter seems to be encouraged. Political awareness in music will never reach the mainstream because the mainstream is about marketing, and awareness doesn't sell records.
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| | | | | | 23. Check. | | | | by mightygodking | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 10:24am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
I would argue their single 'Break You Off' is a white flag of surrender, as they succumb to the J.Lo-wraparound-sunglass-wearing ethos of peacock preening and Cristal poppin' bubblegum schlock.
Okay, so if Bob Dylan plays with the Traveling Wilburys occasionally and sings songs about how he likes to stick his tongue down this girl's throat, he's just taking a break from his usual serious songwriting and having a little fun.
If the Roots do it, they're selling out. Got it.
It's not just a government any more!
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| | | | | | 24. Music without message | | | | by Ben Bridenbaugh | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:21am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Ever notice that about the only 'rap' music album to be actively suppressed was Ice T.'s "Cop Killer" album? I don't like that music much, but I did listen carefully to that album and noted a few things.
1. Musicly, its closer to Anarchist Speed-Thrash.
2. It's anti-racist in the extreme. I don't mean "Whitey's bad" I mean anti-black racist too.
3. Overall, there is a real message for social change that borders on Marat's philosiphy.
4. It was good music. You might disagree with the message, but the guy knew what he was doing.
I have a friend who's an ex cop who'd probably like to shoot Mr. T for that album and if I was in his shoes, I probably would too. It's really violent and disturbing, but IMHO at least there is some kind of relevance beyond simple entertainment. I havent listened to that much other rap, though I have ended up hearing a bit more than I care to thanks to those "Subwoofers". Lots of glorification of the lifestyle and violence, but no actual cry for social change.
Hmm. Lots of romance, too, I've noticed in the rap songs I've heard. Some of them have it so that a single sentence is the entire song. Here's a sampling of others I've heard, though apologies, I don't remember the artists.
"So what about the B--- that got shot, man F--- her! I don't give a D--- 'bout no B---, I ain't a sucker!"
"If you ride in my truck, B--- we gonna F---!" (I'm envious there, most ladies I know would castrate me if I tried that!)
"Heads down A-- up, that's the way we like to F---!"
Another cool one called "Baby got Back." (I think) about how the singer likes curvy ladies, even if they are a little plump. That's a nice one, IMHO, 'cause not all white men think Kate Moss is the ideal for all women.
I liked a song called "Pretty Fly for a white guy" mocking white people who like rap music. Hilarious, and the video was even better. Again, like the 'truck' thing, William Shatner should be envious. I've heard some Trekkies still burn him in effigy for his 'get a life' remark on SNL in the 80's. Neat that they can get away with that.
Of course, when there is any attempt to cool down these music acts, what do they say? "RACISM!!!!!"
I don't claim any expertise in this genre, I'm only reacting to the stuff that reached me, meaning the 'pop' stuff. I guess from listening to a lot of 60's music from my parents I'm disappointed. If the guns & sexism & violence music is what sells and the audience likes it, fine. Just maybe the artists might slip a song or two that argues to make friends, to fight stereotypes, to work for social change in a meaningful way. (ever hear "Phil Ochs"?)
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| | | | | | 25. Different Strokes for Different Folks, But... | | | | by Chasuk | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:30am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Why does anyone listen to hip hop, anyway? Does anyone really find it enjoyable? Seriously? And I mean musically, not just to imbue oneself with a sense of coolness, or toughness?
If music doesn't succeed first as entertainment, it doesn't succeed, period (at least, IMHO). What is entertaining about a bunch of thugs/wannabe-thugs/peacocks stroking themselves to rhyme?
I make a conscious effort to listen to all sorts of music: country, metal, classical, opera, world, Indian, jazz, etc., but the self-indulgent, masturbatory mess that is hip hop, I find totally perplexing.
I am not opposed to style over substance, but not when that style is utterly devoid of substance. Or do posers talking about their dicks, their guns, and their "hoes" constitute substance? If it does, then I have a few songs about hemorrhoids, varicose veins, and premature ejaculation that ought to sell millions.
Neopets - the best free game on the Internet.
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| | | | | | 35. Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks, But... | | | | by Jeffrey W. Baker | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:50pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 25 | | | | | |
Perhaps you would like better the hip hop from the 80s. Try BDP, KRS-ONE, De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, and so forth for a sprinkling of different styles. I find the old school very thoughtful, creative, and entertaining.
I'll agree with you that I haven't heard anything as ground-breaking in hip hop as 3 Feet High and Rising or Fear of a Black Planet in a decade.
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| | | | | 39. Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks, But... | | | | by luna bizarre | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 1:09pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 25 | | | | | |
I listen to hip hop. I enjoy it. While there is a lot of "self indulgent masturbatory" crap out there about gangsta's, ho's and the like, not all hip hop is like that. Actually, it seems to me that all the crappy hip hop that gives the genre a bad name is usually the more top 40-ish stuff. Not everyone who likes hip hop is a suburban 14 year old who fervently desires to have a gun, some blow and a harem of bitches. I too like jazz, I like blues (grew up with Robert Johnson baby), classical, industrial, goth, electronic, new wave, Indian (Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan), and yes, hip hop. Hip hop, at least the stuff I get my aural fix from is not style over substance. It is not all about dicks either. If you have the capacity to download music on your computer, I am going to give you a list of songs and artists to check out. If you still think it is devoid of substance after you listen, I will shut the fuck up and respect your opinion.
1) Your Revolution - DJ Vadim feat. Sarah Jones
2) Song for John Walker - DJ Krush feat. Anticon
3) Candle Chant- DJ Krush/Boss the MC
4) Twice the First Time - Saul Williams
There is so much else out there in this genre that is not only intelligent, but articulate. Refer to slaphappy's post....you need to dig up a mountain of shit to get nuggets of gold. If you do check some of this out, lemme know how you liked it!
~The sleep of reason produces monsters~
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| | | | | 42. Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks, But... | | | | by k0s | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 1:43pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 25 | | | | | |
I make a conscious effort to listen to all sorts of music: country, metal, classical, opera, world, Indian, jazz, etc., but the self-indulgent, masturbatory mess that is hip hop, I find totally perplexing.
This sentence is a TOTAL paradox. You claim to make a "conscious effort" to listen to all sorts of music but then bash hip-hop which, to be quite frank, you haven't listened to very much of. How can I tell? You lump rappers together with hip-hoppers. Yes, there is a difference. What you explain is Rap, pure and simple bragging, violence and showing off. Hip-hop is almost always (note I said almost) positive and deals with life situations. There are exceptions to both, like any music. 2Pac (a rapper) can do a song about how terrible gang violence is and how seeing kids die from it rips him up inside (The song I refer to is "So Many Tears"). Conversely, hip-hoppers can do what can be defined as rap songs. Granted, it's all a bit subjective but no one can seriously say acts like The Roots, Common, Mos Def or KRS-One are the same as Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Mack 10 or Jay-Z. If you're a casual listener then you hear a rap/hip-hop beat and think "Oh, OK, this is all the same". The difference comes from the lyrics. It's akin to hearing a guitar in a song and saying oh ok that's rock, even though acts as diverse as Slipknot to 3 Doors Down play guitars. Just as you can't say Slipknot plays the same music as 3 Doors Down, you can't say KRS-One plays the same music as Snoop Dogg. To lump all hip-hoppers and rappers into one group and call them the same is irresponsible. If you don't listen to it or even like anything from rap or hip-hop, that's completely fine by me, it isn't for all people. However, don't listen to a few songs from the radio and proclaim yourself and expert on all music under rap OR hip-hop.
Visit www. seriouslythough.com
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| | | | | 49. Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks, But... | | | | by landonair | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:45pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 42 | | | | | |
'Rap' is a vocal style. 'Hip-hop' is a musical style. They're the same thing. Rappers were calling themselves hip-hop in 1982 ('Boogie Down Bronx'-Man Parrish)
"It's so easy to say things that are so idealistic without reasoning and thinking them out in the big picture"
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| | | | | | 26. music to save our mortal soul | | | | by CelebratedMrK | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:38am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Music serves as entertainment, it is the necessary accompaniment for dancing and sometimes, just sometimes, it becomes a manifesto. The 20th century saw intelligent young people fixating on this manifesto aspect a little more than necessary. Dang, this article is nothing else but rehashing of that old high school argument over music - my music is superior to your music because it is not for dancing, but for listening and for broadening my horizons.
So, are hip-hop artists wrong in creating music that is solely written for aural pleasures, as opposed to a more noetic purpose?
Have we already forgotten the sheer thrill of the "sonic" aspect of rock and roll? Whether it was Hendrix's guitar transporting us to another place, or Robert Plant's vocals evoking a dazzling array of images, or the Beatles' mesmerizing close-harmonies on Abbey Road, popular music is first and foremost about sound and about the sound's impact on our ears. The pure delight. Then come our cerebral pleasures.
If today's hip-hop artists choose the bling-bling stuff over Public Enemy's overtly political stance, so be it. May the power of the listener decide what is good and what is not.
On a sidenote, the late Mr. Lennon had an interesting comment about the way he wanted to make records in the late 70s. He said, and i am paraphrasing, he wanted to bring out records like newspapers. One record every day. One record reflecting on the day's happenings (note: A Day in the Life came close). The musician as the reporter - a novel approach indeed. But I don't think we are ready to hear the evening news recited over the pentatonic scale yet.
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| | | | | | 27. way off | | | | by runte | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:43am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
I found the article to completely miss the mark as to the 'keeping it real, selling out, communal awareness, blah-blah insert pop terms for some other more meaningful label for which to peddle your shit'... The selling, HAS TO HAPPEN, or you're not making your living as that artist. Selling out isn't inherently bad. I see more communal value coming from the representatives from the hip hop scene (local service work, provocative lyrics that express what the mainstream doesn't, and actual nepotist networks of ensured survival and success) than any new found talent spotlighted on network tv's 'we found us a new corporate whore' show.
I think the rap scene is one of the last vestiges of the American dream (as in the rags to riches climb from the gutter to build an empire from which to hang your hat).
The greatest lessons to be gleaned from the BIGS of this industry are not merely in the influence of styles and ghetto fab flashy living, but in the way the success actually returns to its communities.
Eminem was discovered among many by Dr. Dre, notice the posses of long time friends and fam that are probably enjoying prosperity never dreamed of in previous years? Notorious BIG was 'discovered' rapping on his hometown streets (literally on the street) by a demo heard by Puff Daddy. Puff Daddy, Dre, et al exercised incredible business sense by getting involved in the business, management, label end of the industry. There just to name a couple, but the underlying strength is that all these artists support each other, mutually plug each other, tour with each other, appear on each other's albums and are bolstered as well as discovered by each other. That is why it's now a whopper industry and a credible force in the market. This is also why the scene has not disappeared but grown to have a wide range of product from remarkable 'consciousness' to the most banal to anywhere in between, it's through the consolidation of energies as well as the individual players in the industry that this political/ musical/ stylistic 'movement' continues.
This is not to dismiss or even disagree with anyone's other points on this article, i just thought that this angle had been neglected.
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| | | | | | 28. Maybe they need Third Eye Vision | | | | by kazamatsuri | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:49am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Even through there was an offhand remark above to Deltron 3030, I am shocked (_shocked_) that there could be any discussion of "conscious" or "good" rap without any mention of Del tha Funky Homosapien and more importantly, the Hieroglyphics crew.
Now I will admit that Del is sometimes hit or miss. But the 2001 Hiero album "Third Eye Vision" is the best rap album ever made. Period. Del, the Souls of Mischief, Pep Love, Casual, Domino. This is an instant classic and every single one of its 22 tracks is great. This is the antithesis of the whole gangsta, bling-bling mindset and redefines what hip hop is about and what it means to be an MC.
Plus they're one of the most literate groups of artists, let alone rappers, that I've ever seen. Maybe them and MC Paul Barman. :)
--kazamatsuri
"Would you hand me that shotgun, buddy? Also that chair."
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| | | | | | 29. Hip-Hop...THE Libertarian artform | | | | by Iluminati | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 11:57am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Right now, I'm fucking sick of limosine liberal white boys who think of Black people as glorified pets to take care of for the cameras before running back to their segregated bantustands telling me about how hip-hop should be run. If anything, the history of hip-hop PROVES that the last thing Black people need is to jump into the government and beg them to help us. In the Nation of the Gods and Earth's admittedly racist philosophy, at least they've figured out that Jesus is Just Us, and it's going to be the community itself that saves us, not some new big-government program.
Now, let me back up in history, since I know I just flew over a lot of people's heads. In the mid 70s, NYC was undergoing a huge fiscal crisis that left the city near outright bankruptcy. As a result, a large amount of city services were cut, including funding for after-school and summer programs. That left a generation of young people with literally nothing to do. So what did they do? Set up 2 turntables, steal some power from a plant light post (one of the the most importnat facts in the origins of hip-hop was that Grandmaster Flash was a licensed electrician), play the breaks from whatever records they could find on Jamaican-style sound systems and say some rhymes over the breaks. What happenend? Only a cultural phenomenon so big that it left heads nodding throughout the planet and rock fans begging for a savior while nu metal and New Jack Swing-influenced pop filled their ears. If this is what government does when it minds theirs and gets out of our lives, I have 2 words for them...fuck you!
When I'm not watching Fox News, I'm listening to my main man Marley Marl on Power 105.1!!!
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| | | | | | 33. Re: Hip-Hop...THE Libertarian artform | | | | by Screename2000 | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:37pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 29 | | | | | |
I'm fucking sick of limosine liberal white boys who think of Black people as glorified pets to take care of for the cameras before running back to their segregated bantustands telling me about how hip-hop should be run.
Yes, hip-hop as a musical genre has become a dominant force in the music industry. Yes, hip-hop as a political artform still exists underground. What saddens me is that delving into the political realities of black urban life will never get a mainstream audience. Hip-hop will only be financially successful if urban life caters to white America's image of black people: oversexed, materialistic, drunkard, big-tittied/assed, illiterate, unrefined, barbaric. It's no coincidence that the only successful and serious rap today comes from a white boy who can't even touch the issue of race except platitudes about "one love." And I can't blame current black artists for prioritizing their own and their families welfare and giving the market what it wants.
The fact of the matter is that hip-hop/rap has, and seemingly always will be, co-opted by "limosine liberal white boys" to the detriment of blacks, black music and black politics. If that's not something to cry about, I don't know what is.
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| | | | | | | 31. Hip Hop decline not substance, but style | | | | by Marc Horne | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 12:15pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
At the height of Hip-Hop's creativity (late 80s) political acts (while high profile ... PE, Ice T) were a minority. Most hip-hop was about "day in the life" or Playa fantasies.
I think the decline of hip-hop or rap is not lyrical but musical. At some point it became too expensive to use samples. At that point, the exciting fusion of sounds and influences that made each track a minor innovation ended. Instead the crews were reduced to making their own beats (or doing P Diddles cover versions with crossover appeal and just one big (affordable)sample)
Naturally the Hip Hoppers didn't become talented musicians overnight, but even in those occasions where they did, we were just basically listening to R'n'b with rapping... the restricted rhythms and lack of breakbeats led the rappers into the kind of sing song, rhythmically bland style typified by Jay Z.
All of the hip-hop energy went into the nerdish Turntablism world. Rap lost its hip hop.
Yeah, there are exceptions, like maybe skilled musoes like Common or whoever, but on the whole the hip-hop fury that we lament peaked with "Fear of a Black Planet" (and it's uk brother Silver Bullet's "Bring Down the Walls (No Limit Squad Returns)"
The parallels with other musical forms getting old are not fully applicable... Hip-Hop/Rap got its soul sued out by the man (and Gilbert O'sullivan) and now rap and r'n'b have merged. Hip Hop is (commercially) over.
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| | | | | | 44. Go put on some more makeup | | | | by sosyne | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 3:44pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Bragging about how much a certain rapper can acquire has gone way too far. The flashy ridiculousness of RUN DMC and with their loose adidas' and gold chains was stylish when you look back at it. They still kept it cool though with how they acted and the image they tried to present to everyone. They still had something to say in the end. The problem now though is that style has infiltrated every aspect of rap. Puffy can wear whatever the hell he wants to wear but shut up about the wine and the cars and everything else that he talks about. He has become an icon of style. Just an image and not a musician. The same goes for punk music if you want to call it that. All those lame bands on mtv look like cartoon characters who spent three hours in the makeup department. Get over yourselves. The age group for mtv has also seemed to have shifted towards a younger audience. A younger audience is more likely to be influenced by music that is driven by style. A younger audience can also deal with less thoughful lyrics. I don't know if this is just a bad period in music but where are the people who talk about change and are pissed for a good reason. Im not saying that all blacks have to be revolutionaries of some sort but why sell out to a system that only uses you as a tool to sell records to fourteen year old girls.
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| | | | | | 47. hip hop ya dont stop | | | | by cpzee | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 7:18pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
I recently read a comment by someone who brought up a good point about the "keepin it reel" attitude of today's "hip-hop scene" (commercial, underground, conscious, etc) You can only keep it real to a point, because after that you are killing all the time, grindin on the block all the time, waking up to bubbly everyday, and blinging at a stop sign even though your rims dont stop. It gets old, just like when MC hammer dropped "You cant touch this" every record label got similar sounding artists and said "hey let market the shit out of this new sound", then everyone got tired of that type of music and the gangta rap era entered.
Hey its death row this ruthless that, and what do you know on the east coast it was bad boy this and wu tang that, and all that got old.
Why: because of the oversaturation and exploitation of the music, the so called "cookie-cutter" effect. It happens to EVERY genre, people go with what works (especially if you have no choice since you signed that dotted line to the record companies)
We are now starting (and unfortunately have been) to see this in hip hop at a point were people are seriously getting fed up. But there are so many people who write it off as " that aint hip hop man, such and such is real hip hop" and someone else says nah they arent, this east coast cat is. Talk about a tricky genre, someone you happen to like could be a wanksta.
What is starting to piss me off now is basically the opposite of the commercialization of artists. Now it seems that everyone has the "dude my mc is more underground than you." or "Dude i got the new noname mc, he recorded his over the phone from prison, that is real raw underground hip hop, so my shit is dopper than you (or Puff).
What I am basically saying after this long drawn out comment, is that it is just music all the same. If you dont like the song turn the channel, I agree that the genre is amuck, but as long as you have access and enjoy your favorite artists, than why complain. Do you really want to see The Grouch or Gift of Gab hosting TRL?
We live in a capitalistic society, and corporations are in the music business, in other words, you can get a cup of tea/coffee at starbucks, or if you are against corporate america, you can go to the local java house and get a cup. In the end it is your cup of tea.
"Don't come down this pass, for this way madness lies" - Nietzsche
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| | | | | | 48. What? | | | | by jbou | | | | at Mon 6 Jan 8:40pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 47 | | | | | |
he recorded his over the phone from prison,
Yo my boy called his shit in from the E room after taking six to the chest, What!!!!!!!!!
Arguments have no chance against petrified training; they wear it as little as the waves wear a cliff.
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| | | | | 56. Re: hip hop ya dont stop | | | | by jedrek | | | | at Tue 7 Jan 2:54pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 47 | | | | | |
"Dude i got the new noname mc, he recorded his over the phone from prison.
Ego Trip's Book of Rap Lists actually has a reference to rapper who recorded his whole album over the phone while doing 20-to-life for a murder. And there was Slick Rick who recorded most of his last album (or was it the one before that) while on work release.
ps. The book I mentioned above is a great read for anyone who's ever been interested in hip-hop. Those of us who've been listening to hip-hop for 10+ years will get a kick of out a lot of references to older artists, while all you new jacks can brush up on your history.
p.rawda
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| | | | | 57. Re: hip hop ya dont stop | | | | by Bucky Katt | | | | at Tue 7 Jan 3:03pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 47 | | | | | |
Do you really want to see The Grouch or Gift of Gab hosting TRL?
Oscar the Grouch? Hell yes, I want to see that. Better that that guy that does is now.
Oh, wait, we have Ed the Sock, nevermind, you're right, it would suck.
Aloof.. bizarre...sarcastic... volatile... He is a CAT, after all.
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| | | | | | | | 53. Hip Hop will never sell out... | | | | by wicked_sprite | | | | at Tue 7 Jan 10:17am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
OK, I admit, I don't know much about Hip Hop, but that's probably because I also don't relate personally to a lot of it. I think that's why this so-called Hip Hop sell out thing is happening. I think most of it's followers are the same. They aren't really into Hip Hop, they just don't want to be so white, uninspired, and so privileged. It would seem to be they are so completely missing the point it's scary, but my post isn't about them.
Anyway, I don't have to be a fan of Hip Hop to know by listening to it, that Hip Hop isn't selling out any more than Winger "sold-out" rock and roll. The record companies who watered it down for profit will continue to take it's altered, softened message to the masses. For those who understood what the real message was really about, it's still there; never left.
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