Idiotic Record Company Plan Part XXXVIII — Encoded CD Track Boogaloo
	found on The Motley Fool written by Atlasshrugged00, edited by John (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Wed 4 Dec 6:44am
		"Has Sony gone completely bonkers?" Atlasshrugged00 wonders. "According to the Motley Fool, Sony's new counter to the peer-to-peer file sharing world is a copy-protection protocol which may well cause an elimination of all their customers. Sony announced their "Label Gate" digital rights management (DRM) package which will be incorporated in all CDs released after 2003. Similar to their current MagicGate technology], Label Gate is a one-two punch: Every track on the CD will be encoded, and Sony's proprietary software is required to play back the tracks on a computer. This prevents people from 'ripping' into other formats (i.e. MP3,WAV) and sharing them over the Internet. "This approach is guaranteed to stop sharing but its also guaranteed to piss off consumers and appears to cross the line of fair-use. The article also offers some compelling ways for the recording industry to rebound from their depressed sales. First option? Reduce the obscene pricing on those silly plastic platters."

[ more plastic... ]    

show almost all: 106 commentsbest: 12 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

1.  Artists' point of view   by SickBoy       at Wed 4 Dec 1:22pm score of 1     How do artists whose albums have been chosen to have the tracks encoded feel about this? My guess is that due to the encoding, it will adversely affects sales of these albums, which in turn will end up affecting the lifespan of these bands on these major labels. What's to prevent companies like Sony from dropping bands from their label due to poor album sales, which in effect, they caused themselves? Any man with a michrophone can tell you what he loves the most.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

14.  Re: Artists' point of view   by jandrese       at Wed 4 Dec 2:41pm score of 2 succinct   in reply to comment 1     Why do you think the labels even care what the artists think? It's not like they own any of the rights to the music. They merely wrote and performed the piece (under license from their record company). It's clear to me that the labels for the large part consider artists to be a dime a dozen. They can manufacture another platnum band anytime they want, it's the bottom line that they really care about. There's some entertainment value in watching people juggle nitroglycerin. -- Larry Wall   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   57.  Re: Artists' point of view   by Linux Ate My Dog!       at Wed 4 Dec 9:13pm score of 1   in reply to comment 14     And for large parts you are right: there is a set of pure technical skills that make a band sound polished and look good. I have been browsing on cdbaby, a site that promises unsigned bands at non-usurious terms. You can find artists that you may like by typing in signed big bands that you know. And browsing around it becomes so clear what a label actually does: most of the stuff you'll find there falls under the category of Massive Amounts Of Crap. There are some good ideas here and there, but then the next hurdle is really crap execution (can someone tell me why electronica trance bands think it doesn't matter if a male vocalists actually has voice?). And sometimes you find something good. And you pay reasonable prices. But my god, in the meantime you really start to appreciate A&R people. "He's old school." -- byrne   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   100.  READ THIS   by ear to the ground       at Thu 5 Dec 4:08pm score of 1   in reply to comment 14     If any of you actually are interested in hearing (and recording) artists on the Sony label there is a very easy way to subvert their copy protection.   A lot of ripping software has a 'line in' option. Use it to record from an external source audio as audio (as your ears would hear it vs. as digital material). This also works really well for "ripping" vinyl.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   82.  Re: Artists' point of view   by choodak       at Thu 5 Dec 9:27am score of 1   in reply to comment 1     If I were an artist who had been dropped due to poor sales cause by Sony I'd be thrilled. Then I could switch labels and be able to get a fair contract because I'd be able to shop around for a label.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  I can just see the press conference...   by stankow       at Wed 4 Dec 1:25pm score of 2 succinct     Sony Executive: "Ladies and gentlemen of the press, I would like to introduce you to Sony's newest plan to keep people from illegally copying the music of--" (flunky whispers in executive's ear) "It's already been cracked? Fuck."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

89.  Just take my money, please...   by Chasm007       at Thu 5 Dec 11:31am score of 1   in reply to comment 2     I want to see the other press conference, where Sony says: "We noticed that this whole disk thing is useless to thirty somethings. They have money and will cater to them." There are some truisms in the record industry that have been repeated so long that no one questions them. Only teenagers will pay for music. The idea is that once people accumulate about a hundred CDs they stop wanting new music. At twenty three, no new music or bands will be considered. Radio tells people what they want. Teenagers have no self identity and will listen to the radio. If a song is played enough times, they will want it. You can make a hit by paying it enough times. The maximum revenue has been reached. As much music as can possibly be sold is being sold. The market is saturated. If the Beatles rose from the grave and started hip-hop, it would only take sales away from other labels. Maybe, if everybody disagrees with me, then maybe, just maybe, everyone is wrong. This is my view of the world: Adults want adult music. They want music that still relates to them, not about getting the next hot chick into bed. When did you last hear a song about worries that your child will be a thug, or divorice, or career anxiety. Adults are impatient. Adults are busy. Adults don't have time to play with thirty year old plastic disk technology trying to play music, or managing digital rights systems under Windows, or opening a CD that has been sealed so many times it takes a butcher knife to open. Adults are picky. They don't have the time to screen every new piece of music and listen to it ten times on the radio before deciding to buy it. They want to buy on recommendation, on the choice of a good editor. They want just the good stuff. Adults have money. Really. Not gobs of $200 per month subscription money, not 'please rip me off because I can't do math' money, but money. If you figure out how to get them what they want, then they will give it to you. Your job is to present a product that does fill the need. Now, I don't know how to cater to this market. Someone might make a buck running an old fashion monthly record club that sends individual CDs. Someone might make a buck being a DJ that is really a music critic. Someone might make a buck with innovative use of the Internet. Someone will probably make a whole lot of bucks doing something brilliant. People want to pay you for what you can sell. Take the money.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   91.  Re: Just take my money, please...   by Teaflax       at Thu 5 Dec 12:03pm score of 1   in reply to comment 89     The answer, of course, has been staring the record companies in the face for many, many years. Despite the proliferation of free porn on the net, there's still serious bucks to be made running porn sites. Why? Convenience. If you're into one-legged redhead lesbian dwarves, then you go to the site that caters to those who share your fetish, instead of spending hours on end trawling through thumbnail sites and downloading binaries from Usenet. The same economic logic should, reasonably, apply to music as well, without need for copy protection or other idiot schemes. Just as in so many other businesses, you can look to porn to lead the way. People will pay reasonable amounts for convenience. That no record company has embraced this extremely simple concept is just further proof of how stunningly clueless these people are. "Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. The sooner people accept this, and build business models that take this into account, the sooner people will start making money again." - Bruce Schneier "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   93.  Re: Just take my money, please...   by WhoAreWe       at Thu 5 Dec 1:16pm score of 1   in reply to comment 89     No, but the problem is that it's easier to separate the money from the teenagers, like you said. They keep up with the "hip" and the "cool", which is easy to create marketing for. Adults are more fickle. Yes, record companies are lazy - we've established that. Many companies make money off other people's laziness. Colorblind? Why would I ever want to be willfully blind?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   98.  Re: Just take my money, please...   by alaffin       at Thu 5 Dec 3:10pm score of 1   in reply to comment 89     Adults want adult music. They want music that still relates to them, not about getting the next hot chick into bed Adults are picky. They don't have the time to screen every new piece of music and listen to it ten times on the radio before deciding to buy it. They want to buy on recommendation, on the choice of a good editor. They want just the good stuff. Um, speaking as an adult, I have to take exception to the ideas that I no longer like music about hot chicks, I want to hear music that relates to the crappy things that happen in my life, and I'm not willing to put some time and effort into the things that make me happy, music included. Me, I like punk. I like power pop. I like industrial. I like basic three chord rock and roll. I like lots of stuff and you know what? They still make pretty much all of it. I may not be the target demographic anymore but I don't much care. Yeah, many adults don't have a lot of time to wade through the crap on the radio looking for good stuff. But there's something to be said for taking 15 minutes out of your day and reading some music mag or other (NME works for me) checking out label sites (epitaph for example) or even just kick around on some old bastard you still love's site looking for what they're involved with. Basically, the major labels aren't aiming at me but then they never really were. People who like bubblegum pop will always like what Sony is putting out because, honestly, basic generic pop hasn't changed all that much in an awfully long time. If you were a New Kids fan 20 years ago you would probably like 98 Degrees or whoever replaced them as the flavor of the week. If you were ever part of the target demo then your sound will come around again on the radio and, if you're still listening, you can find some new stuff that does it for you. I dunno, if music is important to you then you can find great stuff no matter what the majors say is popular. If it isn't then why should the labels care? You're not spending your money there anyhow. satire   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

3.  Sony reveals its Anti-Penguin sentiments   by PenguinSushi       at Wed 4 Dec 1:31pm score of 2 astute     If you have a [Windows] PC, then you may be in luck. Mac and Linux users have no recourse, as the CD won't even play in their computers to begin with       so...Sony inadvertently perpetuates Microsofts' monopoly by releasing records that are only playable on Windows machines... ...fascinating... ...for someone like me who doesn't have a stereo, who's spent quite a bit of $$ on computer audio, and who listens to pretty much all music through the computer (which is a Linux box), THIS WILL REALLY SUCK.       what doesn't make sense to me is, if Sony really thinks that piracy is the problem - that it's inhibiting sales - don't they realize that introducing a technology like this is only going to promote the hacking & cracking of this decription and even justify such acts by its mere existence?       Before, we had 3 choices: buy the cd, or get a pirated copy, or not listen to the cd.       Now, we (those of us who don't run windows & only listen to music on the computer) have only 2 choices: get a pirated copy, or don't listen to the cd.       Either way, it's going to Sony. Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me. "One Penguin To Rule Them All..."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

15.  Re: Sony reveals its Anti-Penguin sentiments   by marduk_kur       at Wed 4 Dec 3:00pm score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 3     It's like DeCSS all over again. Make your media so it won't run on my computer and you force me to crack it. Once I've cracked it once might as well make a utility to do it for me. Once I have a utility might as well share it with my friends. Etc. It's like Sony is intentionally promoting media piracy. I don't know what their reasoning could be but they're certainly going in the opposite direction from prevention. I guess that they don't understand that with digital media and the internet once somebody somewhere has cracked a copy protection scheme one time the copy protection no longer exists. One open copy of an album is the same as a million open copies of an album. All they are doing is making it less likely people will pay for the real deal. Sad lad, he really couldn't handle starting from scratch on the very first level. But he died the death of a warrior.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   79.  Re: Sony reveals its Anti-Penguin sentiments   by Saint Nobody       at Thu 5 Dec 9:07am score of 2 intriguing   in reply to comment 15     It's like Sony is intentionally promoting media piracy. I don't know what their reasoning could be but they're certainly going in the opposite direction from prevention. I guess that they don't understand that with digital media and the internet once somebody somewhere has cracked a copy protection scheme one time the copy protection no longer exists. One open copy of an album is the same as a million open copies of an album. my theory is that they are planning for a massive intellectual property lawsuit and want to be able to demonstrate that they've foiled piracy to the best of their ability. because arguing that lack of copy protection would decrease piracy would strike most people as lunacy. plus, by adding copy protection, the people who rip cds are criminals under the dmca. perhaps they'll even appeal to the government for a handout when the shit hits the fan, under the guise of preservation of the arts. and i don't think that the government would bite unless it appeared that they were doing their best to save themselves instead of depending solely on the government. i'll bet that they're trying to have as many legal options as possible. of course, i'm not a lawyer so i'm probably completely wrong.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   84.  Re: Sony reveals its Anti-Penguin sentiments   by UdoKeir       at Thu 5 Dec 9:32am score of 1   in reply to comment 79     plus, by adding copy protection, the people who rip cds are criminals under the dmca. Not quite. People who provide the tools to rip CDs are criminals. It's perfectly legal for you to construct the tool yourself and rip your own CD. Just don't distribute it.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   36.  me too   by calimehtar       at Wed 4 Dec 6:38pm score of 1   in reply to comment 3     It's like two boycotts in one: boycott microsoft and the record company bastards follow without any additional effort.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   67.  Re: Sony reveals its Anti-Penguin sentiments   by liebeslied       at Thu 5 Dec 2:14am score of 1   in reply to comment 3     It's a poor comparison, but isn't it kind of like complaining that you can't play a new CD on an old vinyl-record player? Ages are irrelevant. But...wait...let's say you had a tape deck and you could only buy CDs. So you buy a CD and get your friend with the CD player/tape deck to copy it onto a tape. So with Sony's technology you crack the encoding and play it like a regular CD. Is that illegal? Nobody would've cared before Napster; you're paying the same price for the same product. Plus, probably, something for a code-cracking-code. Wait, that would make this new technology pointless. Oops. Sorry. You guys really are Users. Your actions are totally illogical.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

4.  my solution   by munchkin       at Wed 4 Dec 1:35pm score of 1     The sorts of problems associated with this type of approach are legion. First off, to be able to save the audio tracks on your PC, you have to register online. You are allowed to decode the tracks and save them once. If your PC crashes; if your spouse or child accidentally deletes the tracks; or even if you have more than one PC, you have to pay again to "unlock" the tracks. Worse still, you don't have the option of just buying the tracks you want -- you have to buy them all, at $1.64 apiece. For the average CD containing 12 tracks, that comes to $19.68. Yes, you pay again for a CD you already own. Second, suppose you have a portable audio device, such as a Nomad or an iPod, and you want to listen to the music there. If you have a PC, then you may be in luck. Mac and Linux users have no recourse, as the CD won't even play in their computers to begin with. The PC user can use the Sony software, register the CD, and save the song files, but they can only be played back via the Sony software. Sony claims you can copy the files to audio devices that comply with the OpenMG DRM technology, but which devices comply and how this is accomplished are unclear. All this hassle makes me want to just use WinMX and get it over with.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  MP3s 4 Ever   by Ozymandias       at Wed 4 Dec 1:38pm score of 2 informative     I don't know how common my situation is, but if I can't rip a CD to mp3, there is no way I'm going to buy it. I've got a computer in my living room that plays mp3s as a mp3 jukebox. My CD player at work plays mp3 cds, and the cd player in my car plays mp3 cds. I'm about 1/2 way through my CD collection, and the convenience is amazing. I can fit on average 10 albums of mp3s onto a single CD, which means that with a CD wallet of 20 CDs, I can now carry around almost my entire collection of CDs. The difference is just incredible, and I'll never go back. If I feel like I "have" to have the album, the only way I can get it in a useful format is to find it on Kazaa. Right now there are probably not that many people this far along the mp3 curve as me, but give it 2-3 years. This is a losing strategy for SONY.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  Re: MP3s 4 Ever   by sulli       at Wed 4 Dec 2:34pm score of 1   in reply to comment 5     Right. Either rip it, or encode from analog, or (attn. Sony, pls pay attention thx) DON'T BUY IT. That is all. Tout abus sera puni   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   115.  Re: MP3s 4 Ever   by dogslife       at Mon 16 Dec 7:25pm score of 1   in reply to comment 12     Alright, labels treat artists worse than they should. We all agree? Good. The artist's cut from a sale of their CD is paltry. We can probably all agree here too. But when you download music instead of buying it, the artist gets less than a pittance--their cut on your download is $0. Take a good look at that figure. Now imagine you're a record company exec (don't worry, this won't take a minute) and that figure is not much less than what your label has made in the last year on Artist X. You've been advertising and getting the music on the radio, but you've got no sales to show for it. Or, in another scenario, Artist Y's back catalogue is substantial, requiring the label to keep a dozen or more albums in print. The music still seems popular, the music press is still interested in the artist, but the titles aren't registering any sales. So now that Artist X or Y has ceased to make money for your label, which has been keeping their work in print and distributing it internationally, what do you do? If you're like 99% of record execs, you drop Artist X faster than Michael Jackson can toss a baby. Alright, you may cease to be a record exec. (It'll just take a minute for your brain to warm back up.) Just like every other major label, Sony hasn't a clue how to adapt their business model to the post-napster music business. They're doing nothing but aggravating people who are actually buying their product: those who choose to download exclusively just have to wait for someone to crack whatever silly 'protection' has been applied to a CD before it's available online. My point is simply this: every time you download most or all of a CD, or as much as would have compelled you to buy it in the music market of five years ago, you do the artist a disservice. To make a living, an artist's listeners need to be a source of income--this is especially true for 'niche' artists. Concert attendance helps, but the cost of touring eats up the lion's share of that income. And how many times will you pay to see Artist Y in the span of a year, anyway? People love to talk about how evil the labels are, but nobody I know has ever made any effort to get money to an artist via any other means. You may fire when ready. Mottos are for losers.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   74.  Re: MP3s 4 Ever   by Sequentious       at Thu 5 Dec 8:28am score of 1   in reply to comment 5     I agree with you here. I ripped every single one of my cds to digital formats (ogg in my case, rather than mp3). I went and bought an 80 gig hard drive for it, and then I upgraded the server so I could get a nicer PCI sound card, and hooked it up to a nice sterio reciever (with no tape deck, radio, or cd player). Ive got speakers in various locations throughout my home, and am investigating some web control software so I can change songs using my wireless laptop (its a linux server, btw, and a linux laptop as well). As you can see, I ripped cds I own (which took a friggin long time), and bought hardware to support my effort. I'm not a cheap bastard, and yet I still download music. However, should that music be worth listening to, I will buy the cd, rip it onto my juke box, and enjoy listening to it myself. I can tell you that I've bought a lot of music due solely to mp3 of a lot of bands I would not have otherwise heard of (i.e. friend says "listen to this band, i saw them in a concert the other day"). So, basically Sony (and BMG as well, from articles I have been reading lately) are forcing my to stop using my current setup, which I have invested a lot of time and money into, as well as preventing me from hearing of new music since I have no radio, and rarely watch music television channels... Yes, i can.. uh.. see their strategy here... Pretty soon they will outlaw bands selling copies of their own cds at concerts for $10, because they do not make enough cash off of them. -Sequentious   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   88.  Re: MP3s 4 Ever   by barnesdr       at Thu 5 Dec 10:47am score of 1   in reply to comment 74     Much as pop labels don't favor real artists, they don't favor real listeners either. Sony doesn't want you to hear a song a few times, decide you quite like it, listen to it some more, check out some of their other stuff, and then buy the album. They want to seduce you into buying it with Christina's body, and then have you throw the disc away and look for something new after the third listen. CD units shift more, faster, if you don't know what's on them in advance. Who's chosen to buy a Britney Spears album on the strength of MP3 downloads? Who's discovered it wasn't worth bothering? Although Sony say new CDs will be protected, do they mean new pressings of classic albums? Nick Drake's Pink Moon, the Beatles Revolver, Pink Floyd's Piper at the Gates of Dawn, or even the Eagles' Hotel California probably benefit from some level of 'try before you buy'. Dr. Wankensteins House of Hot Hits, on the other hand, doesn't.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

6.  Like fun it will   by shadarr       at Wed 4 Dec 1:43pm score of 1     "This approach is guaranteed to stop sharing" Are they high? This won't stop file sharing, if anything it will necessitate it. Even if the encryption isn't broken (and it's not even really "if" so much as "while"), there are other methods of circumvention. I have downloaded episodes of TV shows that were never aired--they came from somewhere. And once a file is on the P2P networks, the game is lost (for Sony). So, we can assume that most of the songs will be available on the net, in good old untainted mp3 format. You can either download these mp3s for free, and listen to them on any computer or portable player in existence, or you can buy a crippled CD which allows you to rip the songs once, into a proprietary format for which there is a player available for Windows computers only. And although they claim you will be able to play the CD in any stereo out there, I somehow doubt it. It hasn't been the case for any of the "copy protection" formats to date. By definition, anything they do to a CD to limit its use breaks the compact disc format. I download mp3s occasionally, but I generally buy the CD if I like it. And then I burn a copy of the CD to actually listen to, and leave on the seat of my car, and throw in my backpack.... And if there are one or two really good songs, I'll rip them to mp3 and take them to work. I will not spend money on something that won't allow me to do everything I can do right now (95% is not good enough), especially when I can download the mp3s and burn a fully compliant CD in about an hour.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  Congratulations Sony   by Jack Canuck       at Wed 4 Dec 1:43pm score of 1.5 astute     If you implement this, you have just guaranteed that I will never buy another CD from your company ever again. I hope I'm not the only one. If nobody buys your stuff, that should solve your file-sharing problem, shouldn't it? I have seen the future, and it is murder.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  Nice try, clownshoes   by 72beetle       at Wed 4 Dec 2:12pm score of 2 astute     This approach is guaranteed to stop sharing but its also guaranteed to piss off consumers You got that half right. This will piss off consumers, but won't even make a DENT in file sharing. ANYTHING that goes to an analog output (like your stereo) can be copied by a 5-year-old. That, in turn, can be ripped to a digital format (like mp3). Sure, it may not be a PERFECT copy, but then again, neither is a 128kbps mp3. Keep it up, Sony - keep pissing off your customers, the highest power in any retail scenario. Keep refusing to embrace online distribution, which is your ONLY hope of making money from music. You and your RIAA cronies deserve the extinction you are so enthusiastically hurtling towards. -72 -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

102.  you can still rip an encoded disc on a pc   by mobiustrip44       at Thu 5 Dec 5:01pm score of 1   in reply to comment 8     furthering beetle's comments, any sound card will allow you to record the wav output from your pc. if you're running windows: 1. open the volume control panel by double-clicking the little speaker in the taskbar on the lower right-hand corner of the screen. 2. click 'options', and select 'properties'. 3. check 'recording'. beneath that there should be a window that says 'show the following controls'. one of the following should be listed, or something similar in effect: 'wav', 'stereo mix', or 'audio out'. make sure this item is checked. then click 'ok'. 4. check 'select' beneath the item mentioned above in the recording volume control panel and turn the volume up 90%. 5. load up your favorite wav editor and your properitary sony cd player app, hit record in the wav editor, and then hit play on the cd player. you can record one track at a time or all the tracks at once and copy-paste them each into new files. then save 'em as mp3s. oooh look. i skirted around your stupid copy protection and i didn't even need a magic marker. back to the drawing board idiots. i can't believe sony actually pays these people to deceive them into thinking that there's any type of secure form of copy-protection. mobius1 // nigritude ultramarine   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

9.  This Protection method WILL fail   by Lizard of Oz       at Wed 4 Dec 2:19pm score of 4 informative     Dear oh dear, what an absolute mob of misguided yak-felchers these Sony people are. 1: Plug cd player into audio input on pc. 2: Use any Audio program to record the input stream as a wave file. 3: Convert the wave to mp3 4: Upload to Kazzaa. 5: Enjoy the ensuing hilarity as the file multiplies through standard p2p practices. Remember, it only takes one ten-year-old with a modest amount of brainpower to do this. Really, how can the Sony execs be so gullible as to believe that this technology will stop their files from being shared?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by alaffin       at Wed 4 Dec 2:32pm score of 3.5 brilliant   in reply to comment 9     You do of course realize that you've just broken the law right? satire   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   18.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by Lizard of Oz       at Wed 4 Dec 3:17pm score of 1   in reply to comment 11     When mp3s are outlawed only outlaws will have mp3s. Viva la resistance!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   19.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by marduk_kur       at Wed 4 Dec 3:27pm score of 1   in reply to comment 11     It's so sad that laws like this are real: `(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that-- `(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; `(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or `(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. `(3) As used in this subsection-- `(A) to `circumvent a technological measure' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and `(B) a technological measure `effectively controls access to a work' if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work. The penalty for violation is: `(1) IN GENERAL- Except as otherwise provided in this title, a person committing a violation of section 1201 or 1202 is liable for either-- `(A) the actual damages and any additional profits of the violator, as provided in paragraph (2), or `(B) statutory damages, as provided in paragraph (3). `(2) ACTUAL DAMAGES- The court shall award to the complaining party the actual damages suffered by the party as a result of the violation, and any profits of the violator that are attributable to the violation and are not taken into account in computing the actual damages, if the complaining party elects such damages at any time before final judgment is entered. `(3) STATUTORY DAMAGES- (A) At any time before final judgment is entered, a complaining party may elect to recover an award of statutory damages for each violation of section 1201 in the sum of not less than $200 or more than $2,500 per act of circumvention, device, product, component, offer, or performance of service, as the court considers just. Note that the RIAA considers 'per offer' to be equivalent to 'per page view', making the civil fine $200 per unique page visit on this story. Sad lad, he really couldn't handle starting from scratch on the very first level. But he died the death of a warrior.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   61.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by mex       at Wed 4 Dec 11:17pm score of 1   in reply to comment 11     What law? American law? Please let me laugh. (Unless the DMCA applies internationally, in which case I was just seized by extraterrestrial beings who controlled my brain and fingers for a few seconds.)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   21.  How do you use your Sharpie?   by sulli       at Wed 4 Dec 3:40pm score of 1   in reply to comment 19     "effectively controls access" Thus far these CD copy protection schemes have been anything but effective. Tout abus sera puni   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   22.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by Lizard of Oz       at Wed 4 Dec 3:41pm score of 1   in reply to comment 19     sigh ... good point. Ok people - how do I get the post pulled down?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   27.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by hobly       at Wed 4 Dec 4:26pm score of 1   in reply to comment 19     So, since any player circumvents the copy protection because the audio can be recorded, listening to music is illegal isn't it. Or, since sound waves are analog, the DMCA doesn't apply. In the end, who cares what the RIAA wants? We're going to do what we always have, whatever we want.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   33.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by cortices       at Wed 4 Dec 5:46pm score of 1   in reply to comment 22     You aren't serious, are you? You can't kill the boogey-man.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   37.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by LDPE       at Wed 4 Dec 6:42pm score of 1   in reply to comment 19     what? no forms of medieval torture at all? The RIAA must be getting soft. Normalcy is for people of limited imagination...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   76.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by Sequentious       at Thu 5 Dec 8:40am score of 1   in reply to comment 61     I too shall laugh, I just hope I don't have to visit the US to talk at a seminar anytime soon. the greatest part is that adobe knows this is nuts. -Sequentious   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   85.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by alaffin       at Thu 5 Dec 10:07am score of 1   in reply to comment 61     If you're in Europe you're even more screwed. satire   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   92.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by Iamthewalrus       at Thu 5 Dec 12:32pm score of 1   in reply to comment 22     Ouch. I just hit refresh ten times. Don't worry, though. If you just send me the $1000 up front the RIAA need never know.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   95.  Re: How do you use your Sharpie?   by homisthecat       at Thu 5 Dec 2:29pm score of 1   in reply to comment 21     "effectively controls access" Main Entry: ef·fec·tive·ly Function: adverb 1 : in effect Main Entry: 1ef·fect Function: noun 1 a : PURPORT, INTENT b : basic meaning : ESSENCE ... 7 a : a distinctive impression b : the creation of a desired impression 8 : the quality or state of being operative : OPERATION - in effect : in substance : VIRTUALLY - to the effect : with the meaning   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   41.  Re: This Protection method WILL fail   by Damacles       at Wed 4 Dec 7:01pm score of 1   in reply to comment 9     For those of you who are terrified of the jungle of wires that is the back of most PCs, MusicMatch Jukebox has the option of analog ripping in its recording preferences. The only downfall is that it records at play speed, so a 56-minute CD will take 56 minutes to rip.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   101.  Blurring the lines   by beelerspace       at Thu 5 Dec 4:40pm score of 1   in reply to comment 9     Not only will that kind of five-step copying occur, but people that genuinly purchased the CD who want to listen to the CD directly from their computers or in their mp3 player will be forced by Sony's copy protections to use p2p. Ironic, isn't it? The same thing has happened to PC games. It's been doing copy protection for years, and it's gone from silly codewheels and manual quiz questions, to Safedisc SecureROM. In the end though, copy protection hurts everyone except people pirating the game. Consumers often lost the codewheels or infrared decoders or manuals, and, more recently, CD protection like Safedisc has crippled the performance of games. So what happens? Genuine consumers are forced to visit certain sites to even play the game unhindered. Pirates and copiers crack the game within hours of its release. And so it will be with the audio industry, although, as Lizard demonstrated, it's a lot easier for audio pirates than for software pirates. Sony's actions will hurt consumers, and will inevitably only justify the very existence of that which they're trying to destroy: peer to peer audio sharing. If I actually paid $20 for the CD, but can't listen to it on my Rio mp3 player within the realm of fair use, than kazaa suddenly ceases to be a pirates' paradise and within an instant becomes a consumers' haven, a genuine legit service. They're blurring the lines between legitimate customers and pirates. The tools for both, post-copy-protection, are the same, whether they're use for fair use or for selling on the streets of a third world country. I just can't believe it's gotten this far; to a large viable company actually doing something more than a mere test. Whatever happened to representation in a democracy? Where are our senators and representatives here?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

10.  It's been said before, but...   by afarouza       at Wed 4 Dec 2:29pm score of 1.5 succinct     Many record execs had hoped the multi-year slump in new album sales would be over after the courts dismembered file-sharing service Napster in 2000. Ummm.. Maybe if the 'new' music wasn't just clones of the same ol' crap from the past few years, sales would be better. What would Jesus do? Hopefully, smite Creed.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

31.  Re: It's been said before, but...   by mrradon       at Wed 4 Dec 5:29pm score of 1   in reply to comment 10     Good point. Part of the problem is the major label industry having a protocol to search out "new" bands that sound like other "new" bands that have become "hot". So in other words you get awful bands like Puddle of Mudd who were (most likely) signed to compete with a band like Nickleback. But the larger problem is that bands like Nickleback who got their entire sound based on the Seattle "scene" and Puddle of Mudd, the same, have thus encouraged up-and-coming bands to mimic their sound. So if the current "hot" band mimics Alice in Chains it's because they're mimicing a less "hot" band who is doing the same, and then we go on down the line until we get to the birth of the blues done by boring white boys. A majority of these rock bands are mimicing mediocrity, and the major labels are in a fervor to keep signing them, and people buy them and discover there's only maybe 2 good songs on an album, which could be prevented by the singles industry which doesn't really exist anymore. Instead, people are, in a way, duped into buying long players and end up discovering only a few good songs on a record, because the labels haven't realized that they should be coaching artists to make whole albums worth of solid material. But on the other hand, when you have copy cats of copy cats, how could anyone expect such a band to have more than a few good songs anyway? The intelligent music-buying audience I know doesn't really buy much music on major labels, the major labels are behind the rest of the listening audience, and buyers don't want to spend $18 on a CD that will be mostly filler. Thus the used record industry, and file-sharing. And who is going to want to spend, what, around $40 to have a copy of that one crappy CD on their computer? Clearly the smart people will easily circumvent this system, and the only people Sony will dupe will be the not-so-smart kid who's only just had a computer for like a month. If the majors were putting out solid material, they wouldn't be so desperate to try and fix a huge gaping wound with a little bandage. The entire industry needs an overhaul, from the Clear Channel monopoly down to price-fixing. However I am fairly certain that this "Label Gate" plan will pass as they search for newer ways to try and foil the free exchange of art.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   96.  Re: It's been said before, but...   by homisthecat       at Thu 5 Dec 2:39pm score of 1   in reply to comment 10     Many record execs had hoped the multi-year slump in new album sales would be over after the courts dismembered file-sharing service Napster in 2000. Well gee, it couldn't have anything to do with the multi-year slump in the economy, could it?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

13.  Yeah, this is definitely going to help sales   by philipmarlowe       at Wed 4 Dec 2:40pm score of 1     I've seen these copyprotected cds. When I was writing record reviews, we used to get copy protected advance cds. First thing I noticed, not only do they not play on my computer, they don't play in my car stereo either. Of course, someone will figure out what kind of technology they need to rip these tracks. Then, disgusted people like me will stop buying cds that won't even play in their cars and just get them free off of the internet. this is not a sig   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

16.  UserFriendly...   by Misch       at Wed 4 Dec 3:07pm score of 1     One of my favorite UserFriendly comic strips of late dealt with this topic: "Partnership for a RIAA-Free America" The Comic "And this is how many hackers have the time to figure out how to break the copy protection scheme on the CD that Murray bought."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

51.  Re: UserFriendly...   by Kos       at Wed 4 Dec 8:34pm score of 1   in reply to comment 16     A little bit of a different topic, but another good MP3 related comic: When you pirate MP3s, you're downloading communism Modern Humorist used to have a counter one about when you pay for CDs, you're rocking our with the man. Alas, I can't find it.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   69.  Re: UserFriendly...   by SacredGroundChuck       at Thu 5 Dec 6:24am score of 1   in reply to comment 51     Here you go. There are others of this line here. Unfortunately, they're not downloadable. Glad I got them when they were. "Did you know that the human brain is the only computer in the universe made of meat?"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   94.  Re: UserFriendly...   by A. H. Cretin       at Thu 5 Dec 2:26pm score of 1   in reply to comment 69     They aren't downloadable? Hell, I'm a Cretin and it took me 30 seconds with View Source to figure out how to get at the images. I won't explain, as that would be illegal. :) :/ -A Humorless Cretin   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   104.  Re: UserFriendly...   by SacredGroundChuck       at Thu 5 Dec 9:46pm score of 1.5 funny   in reply to comment 94     Sorry - should have said they were not downloadable as the beautiful, 11x17 Acrobat files, the way I got them and the way they're advertised. So count me in as a Cretin too! I'd prefer to walk on the beach, sticking my feet in the Mediterranean, eating stuffed grape leaves and... Oh, that's a CRETAN! Never mind. "Did you know that the human brain is the only computer in the universe made of meat?"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   107.  Re: UserFriendly...   by A. H. Cretin       at Fri 6 Dec 3:10am score of 1   in reply to comment 104     Oh, that's different. Not that I could print out an 11x17 in any case, but I do see the point. -A Humorless Cretin   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   112.  Re: UserFriendly...   by homisthecat       at Fri 6 Dec 2:40pm score of 1   in reply to comment 107     Have a PDF... or four.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   114.  Re: UserFriendly...   by A. H. Cretin       at Sat 7 Dec 7:04pm score of 1   in reply to comment 112     Thanks, my office needed some color. :) -A Humorless Cretin   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

17.  Minutes from a Sony meeting.   by marduk_kur       at Wed 4 Dec 3:12pm score of 1.5 funny     "These .mp3s are going to kill us! They provide more convenience than our CDs and, while we charge $20 a pop, .mp3s are free! What can we do?" "Distribute guaranteed-quality .mp3-like media at .02c a pop?" "Reduce the price of our CDs to $5 per?" "Fuck that! Let's make our CDs even crappier, charge just as much, and call all our customers filthy thieves!" "And maybe we could pay off some politicians and get some blatantly unconstitutional laws passed that will prop up our insane business plans?" "Hooray!" Sad lad, he really couldn't handle starting from scratch on the very first level. But he died the death of a warrior.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

20.  Sony is as Sony does   by jimc1       at Wed 4 Dec 3:30pm score of 1.5 astute     This is perfectly in line with what Sony has done for more than 30 years. First, they charge royalties on Betamax while JVC doesn't with VHS, in part to prevent copying. Well, we know how successful that was. Then with the audio cassette dying, and consumers able to make a better audio cassette themselves, they introduce the Minidisc (with Philips trying the DCC) as a pre-recorded medium. Yep, failure. Then they re-introduce the Minidisc as a recording medium for field recordings to compete with DAT. That works, so they expand to portable music, that isn't working so good. It's more reliable than DAT, but not as good for fidelity. Then there's Memory Stick. Now, the average person already has enough remote controls, floppy discs, syquest discs, CDs, CDRW, CDR, DVD, Flashmedia, EIEIEIO, Enough! Don't need it, don't want it. But Sony has this compulsion to introduce new formats nobody wants just because, hey, one of them might work. Sony's only medium successes have been when they partner with other companies on standards like Red Book. When will they learn? Probably never.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

53.  The Brand   by Kos       at Wed 4 Dec 8:44pm score of 1   in reply to comment 20     I agree with your point, but you forget the other major reason behind many of their new (but usually not adopted)products...it's SonyStyle(tm). Sony sells a brand...an image... a lifestyle. Look at the Vaio and their version of the palm and you realize that this business strategy work because some people are willing to pay more for a more stylish cutting-edge looking product. To bad for Sony that this only goes so far. In addition, music is not the same as the products. Owning music today has become more utilitarian ("I need this file" or "I want that song" compared to "I really need to have the album art", etc."). As such, who the heck wants to pay a premium just so you can own the music. Or as more appropriately stated, why buy cow when the milk is free? Not me.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   86.  Re: The Brand   by nyekulturniy       at Thu 5 Dec 10:14am score of 1   in reply to comment 53     I don't exactly know what Sony is up to, but I do know that they think they're a lifestyle company rather than a company that makes and sells electronic equipment. For example, Sony is pulling out of making shortwave receivers, after developing a reputation of excellence in the field. I still miss my ICF-2001, and would love to get an ICF-2010. They're leaving the field to Grundig and Sangean. Now, shortwave isn't "cool", but it is a reliable way of getting information into places where the Internet doesn't penetrate deeply (due to finances, censorship, etc.) The company is due to shrink because it thinks of the future as trend setting and not of what it does best. Nyekulturniy... Proudly confusing readers and editors since 1981!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   90.  Re: The Brand   by jimc1       at Thu 5 Dec 11:50am score of 1.5 nuanced   in reply to comment 53     Sony's rationale might be the brand, but the practise and their history proves they have a poor understanding of their own brand. I agree Sony is a powerful brand, but the idea that they own it is their downfall. A brand is a relationship. You do not succeed in a relationship by unilateral decree.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

23.  Try this post again...   by CashCarSTAR       at Wed 4 Dec 4:03pm score of 1.5 astute     Sony is shooting themselves in the foot. Their goal seems to be to ensure that copyright violations remain an acceptable part of our culture. People do not feel any shame at conning the con-men. When people feel like they are being given the shaft, they do not think twice about the black market. The long-term goal of this is to ensure that P2P skyrockets and to force the US government to charge any sharer with life terms in prison. Mind you, anybody with an IQ higher than mayo realizes that the major problem facing the music industry is not one of piracy, but one of mind share. More entertainment dollars overall are being spent each year. But more of it is being spent on movies and video games, two genres where people feel like they are getting their value. However, it is not hopeless. The music industry can get their mojo back by following a few..well..hard steps. #1. They have to stop trying to "BE" the music. Stop the coolmaking and the payola. Let the music industry follow the wishes of the people, not the current "cool" manipulation. #2. Encourage quality. The music industry can do everything possible but if the music sucks. Forget it. #3. One of the big problems with copyright is the "must protect" nature of it. Lobby for a bill that would stop this. Make it so copyright holders have the right, not the obligation to go after "violations". Then it becomes more of a free and open market. What is it you want to change?....We are the radio...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

25.  Maybe this is all a big misunderstanding....   by mcramer       at Wed 4 Dec 4:22pm score of 1   in reply to comment 23     #3. One of the big problems with copyright is the "must protect" nature of it. Lobby for a bill that would stop this. Make it so copyright holders have the right, not the obligation to go after "violations". Then it becomes more of a free and open market. And maybe that's just it. Maybe this is hyperbole and the real goal is not to protect their markets, but their copyright claims. My question for any IP lawyers out there is this: If a record label decided that P2P sharing actually HELPS their bottom line, and they stop fighting it, would they risk losing control of their IP?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   54.  Re: Maybe this is all a big misunderstanding....   by Kos       at Wed 4 Dec 8:52pm score of 1   in reply to comment 25     I'm not a lawyer, but I know that there is a theory of laches or something like that where you can't let someone infringe your product for a long time and then turn around and sue them for damages over the entire period.(Copyright infringement damages usually applies per copy). However, this limitation only applies to suing for damages and not for ownership. In trademarks, their is the concept where your trademark can become generic or diluted if you don't protect it, but that is not applicable to copytight. If there is theory about protecting IP, I think the Sonys of the world would go after the big file swappers to show that they are not acquiescing to the pirates.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   28.  Re: Try this post again...   by silver222       at Wed 4 Dec 4:30pm score of 1   in reply to comment 23     Mostly agree, one nitpick: Trademarks must be protected, copyrights do not have mandatory protection. Even if you don't enforce a copyright now, you still can do so in the future.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   32.  Re: Try this post again...   by Mad Ogger       at Wed 4 Dec 5:43pm score of 1   in reply to comment 23     #1. They have to stop trying to "BE" the music. Stop the coolmaking and the payola. Let the music industry follow the wishes of the people, not the current "cool" manipulation. If they did that, they'd be CD manufacturers with the attendant low profits. Their entire reason for existing is as marketers, promoters, coolmakers, gatekeepers, whatever you want to call it. Selling CDs is just a way to charge for their service. #2. Encourage quality. The music industry can do everything possible but if the music sucks. Forget it. Come on, they do encourage quality in the mass-market sense. There are few TV shows I like to watch but I have no doubt that the shows I hate have their fans and any show I tried to make would be much worse. The networks may allow Full House but they're picky enough to keep me off the air. It's interesting to speculate about what would happen if the record companies couldn't make a profit from media sales. Artists would have a problem because if they have no promotion it becomes much harder to make it big. Once famous, they could do well with concerts even if they have to give up the record revenues, which supposedly don't amount to much for most artists anyway. Artists could get together and form their own promotion companies which would function more like advertisers. Or maybe they would start web sites where you can rate songs and read others' ratings and reviews. Another weird thing about the music biz is that certain radio formats (Top 40, Hot AC, etc.) play the shit out of just a few songs from the past 6 months or so. I can't imagine why anyone would want the CD when you can hear the songs 5 times in a single day on the radio. By the time they're done playing it on the radio you'll be sick of it or else it will have aged so you don't want it anyway. There must be millions of people that disagree with me or the record companies would already be out of business, but I still don't get it.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   40.  Besonic...   by bashibazouk       at Wed 4 Dec 7:01pm score of 1   in reply to comment 32     There are sites like besonic that try to do what you suggest, but I have found that you must download quite a few files to find one good song. Another route is to rip mp3's off digital music services like the ones that come with TV cable or satellite service.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   70.  Re: Try this post again...   by Atlasshrugged00       at Thu 5 Dec 6:48am score of 1   in reply to comment 32     All very good points. All the people on here that are bitching about the 'poor' music out there have to consider that the entertainment industry is the most volatile of them all. They are beholden to OUR tastes. You can only blame so much on their 'fabricated' artists when WE collectively are the ones buying it. I promise you that there would be no People articles and Entertainment Tonight specials about Jennifer Lopez if no one was buying shitty 'Jenny on the Block' or going to see her craptacular 'Maid in Manhattan' movies. Somebody is buying it...and lots of it. So which one is it? We buy artists because our friends think they are cool? Or we buy artists because the nefarious recording industry feeds us the schlock? Neither answer is very flattering.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   83.  Re: Try this post again...   by SerpentSkirt       at Thu 5 Dec 9:29am score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 70     A gold record sells 500,000 copies. A platinum record sells 1 million copies. One million? There are 270 million people in the US alone. Therefore a platinum album appeals to 1/270 of the US population. If her album goes quadruple platinum that's 4 million, or 1.5% of the people in the US purchased her album. All that hype for 1.5% of the population. It hardly seems justified. -SS   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   105.  Re: Try this post again...   by TheMCP       at Fri 6 Dec 1:19am score of 1   in reply to comment 83     If her album goes quadruple platinum that's 4 million, or 1.5% of the people in the US purchased her album. All that hype for 1.5% of the population. It hardly seems justified. Hmm... $17 CD - $2 approximate cost of manufacture = $15 profit per CD. 4 million copies * $15 profit/cd = $60 million profit. Sixty Million Dollars is enough to generate a bit of hubbub, even if it does get cut between the label, the store, and the distributor. End of line.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   110.  Re: Try this post again...   by SerpentSkirt       at Fri 6 Dec 12:25pm score of 1   in reply to comment 105     A mere 1.5% of the domestic population is driving the hype juggernaut. As your analysis proves, though, record companies can be incredibly stupid, dull, narrowminded and whorish while pulling down immense benjamins. I wonder if $60 million even covers their cocaine costs for a year? -SS   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

29.  Here's a point   by This Eloquent Fool       at Wed 4 Dec 4:37pm score of 1     Just because you can't encode direct from a CD doesn't mean you can't have an MP3 of it. any of your guys have a stereo with an output? gee, run a wire from your computer to your peecee and you can record it like that. How the hell do you think people trade MP3's of bands that only release on vinyl? (still the smart choice) So basically, if something is audible, it can be pirated, so what's the point of making slightly inconvenient?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

34.  Re: Here's a point   by eduardo       at Wed 4 Dec 6:03pm score of 1   in reply to comment 29     I was about to make the same point. You don't even need a stereo. Assuming you own the CD and the decoder software, you can - at worst - connect the sound-out on your soundcard to line-in. Theoretically, this isn't very good since your recording is digital to analog to digital, whereas CD ripping is purely digital, but I am not sure if this results in any noticeable quality difference if you have a good sound card with a clean connection. J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   56.  Re: Here's a point   by settonull       at Wed 4 Dec 9:11pm score of 1   in reply to comment 29     Just because you can't encode direct from a CD doesn't mean you can't have an MP3 of it. any of your guys have a stereo with an output? gee, run a wire from your computer to your peecee and you can record it like that. Yup, they have actually thought of that. The MPAA wants a law passed that ALL analog to digital converters would have to have code/hardware in them that would detect watermarks and refuse to convert if not permissioned. I kid you not. The insanity of this is just astounding. -chris   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   59.  Re: Here's a point   by eduardo       at Wed 4 Dec 9:30pm score of 1   in reply to comment 56     people qill start tapping into speaker wire. J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   99.  Re: Here's a point   by A. H. Cretin       at Thu 5 Dec 3:20pm score of 1   in reply to comment 56     Idiocy. First off, building a basic ADC is a simple project, often used as an introductory exercise in electrical engineering courses. Second, where do these people get off regulating something as basic as an ADC? They have any number of non-pirating uses (and they actually get used for them, unlike p2p systems). What's next, copyrighting/patenting/whatevering individual notes, so you have to pay them every time you play an "A" on your own instruments then requiring that all instruments sold come with coin slots and auditing software? Aaargh. -A Humorless Cretin   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

30.  Red Book only schemes are a bad idea   by grahamwest       at Wed 4 Dec 5:24pm score of 1.5 interesting     All these copy protection schemes fundamentally have to rely on a single concept. Standalone CD audio players comply with a standard called "red book" whereas DVD players, CD ROM drives, car CD players (not quite all but the overwhelming majority) and portable CD players are designed instead around the "orange book" standard. Therefore if you make a disc that is compliant with the former but not the latter only conventional audio CD players can play it. However, according to this CNN article, red book CD players are rapidly falling out of favour and being replaced with orange book devices. This means the market for red book only discs will shrink. a cnn.com, CD players becoming a thing of the past   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

38.  Re: Red Book only schemes are a bad idea   by spygirl       at Wed 4 Dec 6:44pm score of 1   in reply to comment 30     If this is true (and I'm not saying it isn't, necessarily) then it begs the question, what is considered a "stand-alone" CD audio player? Is my clock radio/CD player "stand alone" - since it isn't really attached to anything else and truly does "stand alone" - or only the 10-year-old 6-disc changer attached to the tuner and the amp and the speakers - which requires several other components to work but the hardware to which is CD-specific? I'm genuinely curious, and dammit, I really don't want to have to buy a new stereo system. (Hell, I bought my DVD player because it decodes MP3 CDs and audio and all - three, three, three great features in one!) Seriously, the writeup's got it dead-on. Lower prices. I have bought exactly five CDs this year, and two of them (debut albums by Andrew W.K. and OK Go) were priced under $10 at Target, and the other three were gotta-haves by favorite artists. I would buy every CD by every band I even moderately liked if it only cost me $10 - which still results in an obscene profit for the label and the artist getting screwed, just like now.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   45.  Re: Red Book only schemes are a bad idea   by grahamwest       at Wed 4 Dec 7:44pm score of 1.5 informative   in reply to comment 38     I should've been more precise in my definition. A device that plays media other than audio CDs or which incorporates skip protection will be an Orange Book device. Anything else is almost certainly Red Book. Your old changer and your clock radio will be Red Book. The difference comes down to disc layout and random access to the disc. Red Book players can only see the first session recorded on a disc, can only find the start of a track and linearly seek from there. You need to be able to jump about more to provide proper skip protection which is why cars and portables are Orange Book. I believe there's some difference in the way error correction is handled but I'm not sure of that. I'm all for convergence devices. I love that my DVD player plays CDs with MP3s on (as does my car CD player). I own 10 things that can play audio CDs and none of them are Red Book! And yes I totally agree about the pricing. I buy lots of music CDs and even I'm gunshy about buying something out of the blue. The music biz has decided that legislation is cheaper than competition and there's really nothing we can do about it.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   72.  Pricing   by Atlasshrugged00       at Thu 5 Dec 7:10am score of 1   in reply to comment 38     Hard to even understand pricing variation between retailers. Saw the new Shania Twain album in a flyer for Kmart (frigging Kmart) for $9.89, and you get a free poster, on the release date. I haven't seen under $10 CDs ever. And this one is a double CD. But of course Best Buy is selling it for 10.99, and Media Play is selling for 13.00...with no poster damnit. I am sure the price has increased, increased of all things since the release. Pricing is just insane. So I bought it at Kmart. For $10.59 with tax and a hot little poster which I carefully took home to show to my wife. She was really happy for me....Crazy. And yes I love Shania Twain...no matter what anyone says. And in almost any circumstance I will give her my money.....all my money.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

35.  How Sony Taught the World to Steal Music   by phenry       at Wed 4 Dec 6:09pm score of 2.5 brilliant     Whereas file sharing is still essentially the province of teenagers and geeks, the number of people who have experience with digital music is growing every day. Portable MP3 players are cheap enough to be given as gifts these days, and Windows Media Player lets you rip an entire CD to your hard disk with a single click. As large as the file-sharing audience currently is, I have to believe that the only reason it's not larger still is because there are a lot of people who simply haven't gone to the trouble of downloading Kazaa or a Gnutella client. So your mom buys a CD and tries to rip it to her hard disk so she can (entirely legally) upload it to her Nomad MP3 player to take to the gym. But it won't let her, and she doesn't understand why. She logs onto AOL and asks some of her friends what the deal is, or she calls you like she always does with computer problems. Eventually she finds out how to download Kazaa and obtain, from a 13-year-old boy in Texas who calls himself "KaNaBiS," MP3s of the tracks she paid $18 for. Bang! Kazaa has another user. Now that the software's on her computer and she's seen how easy it is to use, maybe she's going to use it some more in the future, to download music she doesn't own. Multiply this by several hundred thousand other normal folks, who are sure to become increasingly aggrieved at the music industry if crippled CDs catch on, and Sony becomes the biggest catalyst for music piracy since Shawn Fanning. phh | Away for 3 years and still in the karma top 50! Woo hoo!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

39.  This is Great!   by Damacles       at Wed 4 Dec 6:57pm score of 2 funny     I'm in high school, and for spending cash, I take orders for CDs, download the songs off Kazaa, and burn any number of CDs for 3 bucks a pop. I can only hope that Record Execs get even more fervent in their efforts to control MP3s. I figure the higher the price of CDs and the greater the difficulty of ripping or downloading songs, the more customers I get. When Napster shut down, my orders went up 50% because kids weren't smart enough to use Kazaa or Morpheaus. If Record Labels were to do something horrendously decent like, lower CD prices to a reasonable 5 or 6 bucks, I would lose a lot of customers. By the way, Its quite ironic* that I use most of my profits to buy myself CDs, because I believe in supporting the bands and am nostalgic for album covers. *I got a 'D' in English so this is probably wrong   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

49.  Re: This is Great!   by marduk_kur       at Wed 4 Dec 8:16pm score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 39     Ouch. Criminal penalties for profiting off piracy are very heavy and extraordinarily out of line with the crime. Please be careful with posts like this. Plastic keeps logs (of some level of detail, Carl we don't really need IP logging do we???) and they are subject to subpoena. If you are going to post something like this do it anon & preferably though an anonymous proxy to cover your IP. A good fast & easy anonymizer that is also a pop-up and ad blocker is Ad-Muncher. I've heard it runs poorly in Win98 environments, but doesn't everything? Win2000, WinXP Pro or Linux if you want things to work more than occasionally. I've even heard the newest version of MaxOS is stable... will wonders never cease? ps- I don't mean to scare you. Honestly I don't think there's a chance in hell anyone would try to prosecute you. But by the letter of the (stupid horrible ridiculous) law you could be looking at very large fines and even jail time. Sad lad, he really couldn't handle starting from scratch on the very first level. But he died the death of a warrior.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   52.  He'll be ok. It's YOU I'm worried about.   by 72beetle       at Wed 4 Dec 8:43pm score of 1.5 funny   in reply to comment 49     Damacles is in high school, and therefore, probably a minor, and therefore, probably shielded in SOME degree from full-on prosecution. Even if pressed, he can claim Swiftian satire, and without any physical proof of his enterprise, there's no case. However, you've just given explicit instructions on how to circumvent electronic investigation, which under our new anti-terrorism/internet/DMCA legislation is probably punishable by death. Watch your back, bro! -72 -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   55.  Free speech.   by marduk_kur       at Wed 4 Dec 8:55pm score of 1   in reply to comment 52     I'd like to see some ignorant prosecutor try to bring it to me over instructing somebody on how to protect their privacy online. Parts or all of the DMCA will be overturned sooner or later. There are simply too many ways in which the law violates the first amendment. But even the DMCA isn't goofy enough to make what I did prosecutable. I do realize your post was tongue-in-cheek but our lawmakers and law enforcement community are so ignorant on matters of technology I could see them following the exact line of reasoning you proposed. Sad lad, he really couldn't handle starting from scratch on the very first level. But he died the death of a warrior.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

42.  Before you worry too much...   by Long Tall Wally       at Wed 4 Dec 7:05pm score of 1     ...you should figure out if there's actually anybody on Sony's label whose music you'd consider buying in the first place. A roster can be found here. I'm up to the "K" page, and have yet to find anybody who's CURRENTLY producing music I can't live without... later, Sony! Come back when you've got something real to offer. "You can never go fast enough." --The Driver, 'Two-Lane Blacktop'   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

47.  Re: Before you worry too much...   by landonair       at Wed 4 Dec 8:02pm score of 1   in reply to comment 42     Agreed. I don't know why, but since childhood I've had an obsessive compulsion to know what bands were on what labels. Sony has always had the most consistently bland, boring musicians out there. In addition, apart from the Playstation2 and that robotic dog, they make overpriced, mediocre products. "It's so easy to say things that are so idealistic without reasoning and thinking them out in the big picture"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   75.  Re: Before you worry too much...   by meridies       at Thu 5 Dec 8:28am score of 1   in reply to comment 42     I agree with this tactic (the only thing I would miss on Sony is Tony Bennet), except that the way these things go, you'll see the next step in the accumulation of this process is that a couple other labels and a couple other equipment producers sign on to the new Sony DRM system. If it works, that is. If someone cracks it in 10 minutes, then never mind. --meridies-- remember you are what you eat - this includes media consumption   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   78.  I dunno man...   by VesuviusDC       at Thu 5 Dec 8:42am score of 1   in reply to comment 42     I don't know about your taste in music, but they have the rights to a lot of artists I like. You mentioned CURRENTLY producing artists, and there lies the problem. The problem with modern day copyright law is the ability to transfer and assign copyright ownership. Two examples of artists I love that Sony apparently has the rights to: Marvin Gaye and Ella Fitzgerald.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   113.  Re: I dunno man...   by homisthecat       at Fri 6 Dec 2:56pm score of 1   in reply to comment 78     So buy the CD now, before it's released with some asinine copy protection. Unless they have some huge cache of unreleased works I don't think this is really a problem...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

46.  The real deal   by Mimolette       at Wed 4 Dec 7:50pm score of 1.5 brilliant     This is all just a test: this scheme applies only to music coming from Sony Japan, for now. The Japanese are a very technically-literate society, and will assimilate almost any technology. Sony knows that if it won't work in Japan, it will never work anywhere else. In other news, this scheme has already been cracked, by me, in 5 seconds of spare time, with $0 in expenditures, and without any source CD's. I can make nearly-perfect copies of the CD using an ordinary standalone CD-player and a high-tech male to male mini-jack plug, going into the line-in on my soundcard. Not like one generation of analogue loss matters, especially when there's a second generation of digital encoding loss (MP3's aren't perfect). Some CD players even have an optical (digital) out, and some sound cards have an optical in (like mine). You do the math. The music industry has been grasping at straws for a long time. Thier days of obscene sales at obscene prices are over. -Mimolette   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

65.  Re: The real deal   by SirCumference       at Thu 5 Dec 1:08am score of 1.5 funny   in reply to comment 46     In other news, this scheme has already been cracked, by me, in 5 seconds of spare time, with $0 in expenditures, and without any source CD's. I can make nearly-perfect copies of the CD using an ordinary standalone CD-player and a high-tech male to male mini-jack plug, going into the line-in on my soundcard. Boy are YOU in trouble now. Don't you realize that what you've described is a blatant breach of the DMCA -- subverting a copy-protection system! Look for a swarm of back helicopters filled with record execs to descend on your house with wire cutters and destroy your collection of audio patch cords. I also suspect that once the RIAA realize that their copyprotection schemes make no difference at all they'll loby government to have audio patch-leads made illegal -- or at least subject to a huge tax that goes back to fund those helicopters I mentioned earlier.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

48.  Some one correct me...   by MrFadedGlory       at Wed 4 Dec 8:08pm score of 1     ...if I am wrong, but is this new 'copy protection' technology the same one that can be completely circumvented by taking the disc and coating the thin edge of the disc with black felt tipped pen? They really are a bunch of ass-clowns. ::Faded aka, Michael (Plastic)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

50.  For every rule you make, I will break. - anonymous   by dingold       at Wed 4 Dec 8:33pm score of 1     Enough said. "Ausaces Fortuna Juvat"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

62.  as a librarian in radio...   by blisspix       at Wed 4 Dec 11:17pm score of 1     we just had a meeting with a major software vendor and we asked what the deal was with ripping music to hard drives (as most radio stations do now) to have stuff ready to put in the airplay queue or for editing. Basically, the guy was like, "oh these copy protection things will always be there, but if you buy our mega expensive software you can be assured that we have been negotiating with Sony and Universal and EMI to get the decryption tools so that you can continue to make legal use of the CDs" Great. so although we legally have the right to make a copy of a copyrighted work for broadcast purposes here in Australia, the only way we can make use of that right is by playing nicey-nice with Sony and ask if we can pretty please have the code to legally use what we've already bought. If we don't buy the software, we're stuffed.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

63.  Re: as a librarian in radio...   by sulli       at Wed 4 Dec 11:26pm score of 1.5 brilliant   in reply to comment 62     Or just rip via analog. Or DON'T FUCKING PLAY THE CRAP that's copy-protected. No airplay == no sales. Hah! Tout abus sera puni   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   64.  Re: as a librarian in radio...   by blisspix       at Wed 4 Dec 11:43pm score of 1.5 compelling   in reply to comment 63     analog is too time consuming. We'd have to pay an operator to sit there and do it. We did that when we transferred some LPs to CD. Hours and hours of work, resources, and money. It's fine to say 'don't play it' etc but when everything's copy protected, what do we do then? Throw up our hands and say 'oh well'? ACTION is the name of the game here people, we can't sit back and just watch it happen.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   71.  Re: as a librarian in radio...   by waldeaux       at Thu 5 Dec 6:50am score of 1.5 compelling   in reply to comment 62     ... or just don't play stuff from Sony and issue PSA's to inform your listeners why. They DO have Freedom of Speech in some form in Australia, don't they? The war will be one by hitting them on several fronts, but one of the largest (because it means a lot to them) is radio. The more who take a viable stand, the faster this gets resolved. The message that needs to be made over and over, in as loud a voice as possible is that there are many MANY instances where the owner of a CD (yes, *owner*) has the need to be able to transfer a copy of the material on that CD for use elsewhere, be it in another device (MP3 player, hard drive) or for backup. We have to counter that these fair uses are done by people not guilty of piracy, and without the intent of piracy. Any claims by Sony (or anyone else) to the contrary should be met with howls of protest and increased efforts to get the word out. To make a profit, you have to sell something to someone. Stop the flow of spice^H^H^H^H^H er, money, and their whole world comes crashing down. Life is a peanut butter and liverwurst sandwich --- Me, 1977   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

68.  you know who is gonna get the blame   by hohesC       at Thu 5 Dec 5:03am score of 1.5 astute     for sinking cd sales, no matter what the real reason is. imagine sony goes through with this and their sales will fall by let's say 4 per cent (because most people will just want to pop the cd in a stereo, and i just blindly assume this will still work). guess what the headline of the next press release from sony will say? rest assured, it will be in the lines of "CD sales fall by 4 per cent due to music piracy". and that is the scary part: no matter how bad they screw up, they will never ever put the blame on themselves. so laws will get even stricter, even more hideous copy-protection schemes will be thought of. talk about a vicious circle... yes. no.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

73.  Ha, ha, ha, etc.   by BatGuano       at Thu 5 Dec 7:52am score of 2.5 informative     $19.68!?!?!? For a crippled CD? This is all a good thing, musical culture wise. Independent labels that put out old-fashioned wide-open CDs will rise to the top, bringing along artists that will revitalize the moribund music world. The same thing happened when ASCAP had what it thought was a monopoly and got uptight about alowing its music to be heard on the radio in the 1930s-1950s. ASCAP began charging insane fees to stations. They used the same type of argument as today's labels -- if people are going to hear our music for free, then they aren't going to buy it. BMI came along as an alternative. From here: When ASCAP announced yet another large increase for 1939, broadcasters took action and by the following year had established their own licensing organization, Broadcast Music Incorporated (BMI). On 1 January 1941, as BMI labored to build a catalog, most stations stopped paying their ASCAP fees and restricted themselves to the airing of songs with expired copyrights and folk songs that had always been in the public domain. Stephen Foster melodies, such as "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair," became radio staples. To ASCAP's chagrin, no groundswell of indignation arose from the radio audience. Further, singers and instrumentalists replaced much of their repertoire with non-ASCAP material in order to keep their lucrative and visibility-enhancing radio bookings. Many performers switched from playing tunes by George Gershwin, Cole Porter, and Irving Berlin, to using non-ASCAP music from South America--a key factor behind the sudden 1940s popularity of the rhumba, samba, and tango. Combined with government antitrust pressure, these factors resulted in ASCAP's agreeing to offer per-program as well as blanket license fees and the rollback of rates to about half of what they had been collecting. By the mid-1950s, the number of BMI tunes played over U.S. radio stations had come to parity with those licensed by ASCAP. Most of BMI's success was attributable to the explosion of rock and roll--a pulsating blend of rhythm and blues, country, and gospel music penned by songwriters outside of ASCAP's traditional constituency. BMI scooped up these composers and rode the rock-and-roll wave to dominance on many Top 40-format stations. Well, BMI didn't exactly ride the wave, they helped cause it. ASCAP also was to blame. Stations could've played Sinatra singing Porter, something nice and safe, but it was cheaper to play Jerry Lee Lewis. The simple force of money helped to transform musical culture thanks to a monopoly's simplistic thinking. your radio friend, Bat Guano   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

77.  The next big thing   by Megalon       at Thu 5 Dec 8:41am score of 1     I always hoped, perhaps naively, that Super Audio Compact Discs (SACD) and DVD-Audio would be the answer. It all seemed like a win-win situation for all. SACD and DVD-Audio have vastly superior sound quality to that of CD (six versus two channels) but substantially larger file sizes (some 7-fold). If the record labels only encouraged the adoption of these new formats the consumer would eventually demand hi-fi recordings and begin to shun the lo-fi CD and mp3 brethern (SACD or DVD-Audio tracks would be difficult to download, for now anyway). Sadly, they mucked it up. These new discs are even more strongly protected than CD and there are large issues concerning compatibility (see link). Most everyone would have been happy if the record companies adopted a single standard for this new format, lowered the copy protection of these discs, and offered the albums at reasonable prices (say $10).   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

97.  low fi   by maml       at Thu 5 Dec 2:40pm score of 1   in reply to comment 77     Most of the people I know who do file sharing are OK with the MP3 level of fidelity (on a good rip). Unless you have a real good system, it's tough to tell the difference between CD and MP3. So why would we all dive into a higher fidelity format? It's just new equipment to buy for minimal to no reward. I've blocked AI. I'm happier now.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

81.  Just wait till they start streamlining this.   by rmurf62       at Thu 5 Dec 9:20am score of 1     So how long before our newly-unified congress sneaks some language into an import-export bill that allows the US govt. to kill anyone in the world found to be in violation of the DMCA? If drug dealers are aiding & abetting al-Qaeda, why not copyright violators? I smell conspiracy here. Hilary Rosen & John Poindexter are going to start taking some meetings at a classified location, then before you can say "peer-to-peer network", anyone found sharing media files will be denounced as an al-Qaeda supporter. Well, all I can say is, THANK GOD for the second amendment. YYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGH!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

106.  Re: Just wait till they start streamlining this.   by nb       at Fri 6 Dec 2:50am score of 1   in reply to comment 81     Well, all I can say is, THANK GOD for the second amendment. Handguns vs Hellfire missiles?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

103.  Betamax will return!   by fluff       at Thu 5 Dec 7:00pm score of 1.5 informative     Crap like Sony's idea only holds up because the DMCA lets them prosecute anybody who exercises their right to mode-shift media they've purchased. See the Betamax Supreme Court ruling for an explanation of why mode-shifting is supported by legal precedent. Meanwhile, don't just bitch on Plastic, write your representative! Tell them you vote (or your parents vote the way you tell them to...), and that you're technologically savvy enough to understand the DMCA and to understand that it's a violation of your rights under Betamax. Support the Electronic Frontier Foundation! This is our lobbying group, Plasticians, and they understand the machine that we call The Law and how to change it. I know none of you are gonna buy these crappy half-CDs, but that's only the first part of the battle. The other part is going to be fought in the courthouses among the lawyers---show your support there as well!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

111.  And just what the hell is THIS all about?   by 72beetle       at Fri 6 Dec 1:35pm score of 1     This, for me, is the biggest laugh of all. Check out Sony's line of portable MP3 players. Little internal policy conflict there, guys? What a joke of a corporation. -72 -Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]