To Get A Drug Banned, Sometimes You Need To Do It Yourself
	found on Cognitive Liberty written by daytheclowncried, edited by Nick (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Sat 26 Oct 2:08pm
		"Sometimes you just can't trust the DEA to do its job, or so you might think when you consider the case of HR 5601, also known as the "Hallucinogen Control Act of 2002" submitted by Rep. Joe Baca [D-CA]. "On October 10th, a bill (HR 5607) was introduced into the United States Congress by Rep Joe Baca [D-CA] that seeks to make the "Salvia divinorum" plant and its active compound "Salvinorin A" a Schedule 1 controlled substance. The purpose of the bill, submitted on October 10th, is to ban the sale and possession of the plant Salvia divinorum and its active principle, Salvinorin A, which has been marketed on the web and in small free newspapers as "Legal LSD." According to critics, the bill is an attempt to bypass the usual procedure by which drugs are identified as needing to be treated as controlled substances. Salvia divinorum is a beautiful plant and one with dubious effects and unlikely to cause dangerous addiction." In other news, tobacco and alcohol still legal. Drink Bud, smoke Marlboros, watch 'Love Connection'.

	"Interestingly, the pharmacological action of Salvia divinorum was unknown until the summer of 2002 and is still not clearly understood. It may have use as an anti-depressant although evidence has yet to be gathered (and wont be if HR 5601 passes). Research on schedule 1 controlled substances is difficult. "The plant is a member of a large family—including common sage— and is not trivially identifiable on visual inspection (e.g., as with marijuana) and bears a strong resemblance to a number of other decorative plant varieties (e.g., other cooking sages and members of the mint family - there are more than 1000 species in the genus) identification and enforcement will be costly. Also, there won't be many of the giveaway signs that alert authorities to home growers: as salvia is not a sun-loving plant, there's no need for fluorescent arrays or hydroponics, meaning you won't track down plants from high energy bills and always-on lights.

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1.  Help! Protect me from myself!   by Anonymous Idiot       at Sat 26 Oct 2:20pm score of 1.5 compelling     "pursuit of happiness" - my ass.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  sofa king retarded   by coprolalia       at Sat 26 Oct 2:23pm score of 1.5 interesting     this is ludicrous. unlike 2c-t-7, which was recently placed in schedule 1 by the DEA, i have yet to see any cases of salvia killing anyone even being administered concomitantly with other drugs. admittedly, the publicity its been receiving lately has not been conducive to responsible experimentation (i.e. being sold in head shops. yuck.) but still, its a completely innocuous "drug." the fact that this is going through congress rather than the DEA using their emergency scheduling powers to place it in schedule 1 speaks volumes about it - MDMA, 2C-B, and as stated, 2C-T-7 were all emergency scheduled to prevent a public health hazard before laws were passed to fully codify the ban on these substances, and while these substances may not in fact be that harmful, there are a hell of a lot more people using them, and were even before the bans came down on them. this just strikes me as being overly puritanical. what about 5-MeO-DMT and the other associated tryptamines? are they next? when the hell are we going to stop and realize how ludicrous this is? My whole life is an empty exercise in mean spirited sarcasm. --gordon shumway   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

19.  Re: sofa king retarded   by Anonymouse Savant       at Mon 28 Oct 4:20pm score of 1   in reply to comment 2     You throw all those fancy chemical compounds about like you know what you're talking about. Yet just about everyone who's tried the "real thing" has described it as one of the nastiest drugs they've ever hallucinated on -- and certainly one no one should be getting mail-order over the Internet for their first high. So let's take your chemical practicality and other's experimentation and bring it all together -- how 'bout some recommendations for fellow law-abiding Plasticians as to what is good and effective and marginally legal at the moment. I promise not to pass the list along to the idiot, publicity whore politician. Little girls, like butterflies, need no excuses. (R. Heinlein)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   21.  Re: sofa king retarded   by coprolalia       at Tue 29 Oct 12:46am score of 0.5 obnoxious   in reply to comment 19     4,5-dithio-benzoisopropyltryptocarbamazine unfortunately, they havent quite found an efficient process for the synthesis, and it also doesnt store too well, so you pretty much have to ingest it directly from the sole biological source, my nutsac. My whole life is an empty exercise in mean spirited sarcasm. --gordon shumway   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

4.  What a mess   by Blue Dot       at Sat 26 Oct 2:53pm score of 1 interesting     Reading the "informative guide" on the plant, I noticed something really interesting: The whole thing is rife with citations, mostly non-scientific and non-medical. However, when the authors make address the safety of the plant (the first three full paragraphs of page seven), they don't cite literature. In paragraph one, page seven, they say no information was found, fine. Where did they look? In the second paragraph they make the sweeping generalization--"Any danger...arises from anxiety reactions or the possibility of accidents..." but again fail to cite literature. The third paragraph is more of the same with a new twist: "...Salvia divinorum and its active ingredient...are short acting and lack any known tissue toxicity, gastrointestinal, or cardiovascular sequelae." Again, no citations. But look at this in conjunction with the statement made on page 5: Despite its availability to science over the last few decades, investigations and use of S. divinorum, or its primary psychoactive substance, salvinorin A...remain quite limited. I find it particularly fascinating that they mention the lack such knowledge--which is true--couched near (unsubstantiated) claims that nothing bad will happen. I think the rush to judgement is typical of politicians and I think the misleading propaganda is typical of people who want all drugs to be legal and try to work in a faked seriousness to "alert" the public. At least Timothy Leary faked some studies.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

26.  Re: What a mess   by nmiguy       at Tue 29 Oct 2:04pm score of 1   in reply to comment 4     What it left out was an important piece of information, Where can you get it? can this be bought in some herbal remedy store or health food store? I've never tried it, but hey, its legal and harmless, so where could get some I if I wanted to? Not that I would EVER do anything immoral...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  Opportunism   by Minivet       at Sat 26 Oct 3:48pm score of 1     When I first read this, my thought was, "Qui bono?" It's such a minor thing, there must be some motivation for Baca to be doing this. But after looking through the links, I get it. It's a maybe-drug that no one here has banned yet! Baca must have salivated when he learned this: I can get a free ToughOnCrime+ProtectOurChildren boost without having to do hardly anything! And no one else has thought of it yet! Reelection, here I come! (Or is his district gerrymandered? No, looks like he only got in in 1999.) It's pretty sick how automatic this is. A substance starts being talked about in a few circles as a drug, before much is known about it; the rumor reaches the ears of some eager pol and the warning sirens go off. Well, fuck him. If this drug is a fake and his efforts are for nought, then the law will quickly become an embarrassing historical relic. If it's the real McCoy -- well, it'll be just one more headache to add to the government's pile. Maybe a bigger one than the others. But all this is just a symptom, folks.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Re: Opportunism   by hodologica       at Sat 26 Oct 8:03pm score of 1.5 interesting   in reply to comment 7     >A substance starts being talked about in a few >circles as a drug it is mos' certainly a drug, and a very powerful one; indeed it should never be used unsupervised because users sometimes stand up and walk around without having any idea that they are no longer seated (which does not normally occour with other pychedelics, except at heroic doses). this prohibition would/will be a horrifying restriction on religious freedom and it appals me so profoundly i dont even want to get into it. fortunately for me i was done using it after three trials years ago (it is too bizzare of an experience for me to get much out of it). anyway, salvia has no recreational potential; not only is it not a euphoriant, it can also give you an excruciatingly terrifying experience anytime it wants. actually, de facto, im not so sorry its going to be scheduled: certain extremely sleazy, horrible firms were advertising it to people who totally cant handle it (it is not a good first psychedelic), and the fact is the prohibition is not going to make a big difference. there was never a large legal market for this drug (i'd guestimate that on the order of 10,000 americans have used it), and with the centralisation offered by the internet blocked by prohibition, the black market will be even smaller. expect to see extremely few arrests.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   13.  Re: Opportunism   by Mad Ogger       at Sat 26 Oct 10:29pm score of 1   in reply to comment 7     As pointed out, it is definitely a drug. Maybe this Baca guy is just vote-grubbing, maybe not. There are plenty of people out there who think all recreational drugs other than alcohol are bad and should be illegal. It's probably just because of the way laws have to be written that there isn't a law saying "all recreational drugs are illegal, including ones unknown at this time".   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   14.  Schpelling Phlayme   by Anaximander       at Sun 27 Oct 6:16am score of 1   in reply to comment 7     When I first read this, my thought was, "Qui bono?" Good question. Who is this "Bono," anyway? (Or literally, "who by means of the good?") Perhaps you mean "cui bono?" (slight difference in pronunciation, first word has two syllables instead of one).   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  Psychonot   by wrestler       at Sat 26 Oct 4:20pm score of 1.5 informative     I tried Salvia divinorum last year. I bought a concentrated form of it from a web site. The best way to take it, according to the instructions, is to dilute a few eyedroppers in warm water, squirt it in your mouth, let it sit between your teeth and gums for ten to fifteen minutes, then spit it out. So that's what I did. It was truly obnoxious tasting stuff, and I had a hard time waiting, but I did. I spit it out, but it took over an hour to get rid of the awful taste. For all that, I got maybe a tiny little buzz. Because of the taste, I'm not interested in experimenting with stronger doses. No need to criminalize this one. People who want to get altered that badly aren't going to be stopped with anything short of full time supervision or a straight jacket.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

9.  Re: Psychonot   by hodologica       at Sat 26 Oct 7:32pm score of 1   in reply to comment 8     even tho thats how mazatec shamans used it for 100s of years, salvia is at best quite subtle orally   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   10.  Re: Psychonot   by Anonymous Idiot       at Sat 26 Oct 7:42pm score of 1.5 helpful   in reply to comment 8     I have done LSD, hallucinogenic mushrooms, MDMA, ketamine, DXM, all multiple times in various quantities and qualities from mild buzz to mindblowing euphoric worldchanging trips. Some time ago I extracted Salvinorin A from 1/8 ounce dry leaves, and smoked the entire amount. It made high-powered blotter acid seem like caffiene for about thirty seconds. I lost all concept of self. It was as if reality and I had melted and been stirred together; I could not identify any object in the room, having temporarily lost all spatial perception. Later came feelings of a cosmic, infinitely grotesque lie that was my entire life up until the current moment, whereupon I received a thorough mocking from thousands of tiny entities who warned my I had just been somewhere I did not belong. My experiences on Salvia are as dramatic as others' are banal. It is likely that the pharmacological effects are highly unpredictable, as is the quality of the product being offered for sale.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   16.  I second that emotion   by sivapith       at Sun 27 Oct 9:08pm score of 1.5 helpful   in reply to comment 10     My experience of salvia was, by and large, exactly as our friendly AI has described. I can also say with certainty that it can, as was earlier noted, lead the user to actually get up and (in my case) run around with absolutely now awareness of the surroundings. Salvia is absolutely, without question, the most powerful psychedelic drug I have ever encountered in my relatively extensive experience. It is a drug that must be respected by the user. It is not fun, or for partying, or for the faint of heart. I cannot imagine anyone abusing this substance. Either you do it once and then never again, or, if you do it more than once, you give it the respect it demands by creating a set and setting that allows you to be safe and comfortable, though I can't believe that many people would use this substance very often. As far as the topic at hand is concerned... well, yeah, this Baca chap is giving himself something he can say he did. It's cheap and silly, but it's equally repulsive to market a drug like this to people who don't know what they're getting into. Maybe the answer would be to ban advertising it. Let people hear about it from sources that aren't trying to sell it. Maybe then those who aren't ready for it won't know it exists. But I guess the genie's been let out of the bottle; shame on those who profited from doing so. This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  Dragnet: "The LSD Story"   by mrjeff3000       at Sat 26 Oct 9:48pm score of 1     You're pretty high and far-out, aren't you? Perhaps Joe Baca is taking his inspiration from Joe Friday.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

15.  first impulse -- go ahead and ban it   by snut_rucket       at Sun 27 Oct 9:50am score of 1.5 nuanced     as a salvia user, my first impulse is to say, eh, who cares, go ahead and ban it. it's just not a very nice high. I got a lot of stuttering visuals, where your mind struggles to interpret what it's just seen and you're always a couple of seconds behind, and tons of disorientation. The leaves came mail-order from Hawaii and had a cool, sinister, oddly Victorian look to 'em -- it was like smoking something you'd find pressed between the pages of an old anthropology textbook. But I was glad when it was over. my second impulse is to tell Joe "Chew" Baca to vigorously go fuck himself. Of course that's the proper answer and the one I'll stick with.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

17.  Ban it!   by crowley       at Mon 28 Oct 11:03am score of 1     I'm serious here, folks. I mean, heroin, cocaine, LSD, and marijuana are all illegal drugs, and no one does them anymore, right? People wouldn't go breaking the laws of this great country to get high, would they?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

22.  Re: Ban it!   by Hector the Crow       at Tue 29 Oct 1:24am score of 1   in reply to comment 17     I don't think your analogy applies to this particular drug. Hundreds of thousands of people are addicted to heroin and cocaine. Pot is a ritual inebriant and social lubricator for millions. LSD is the most widely known psychedelic drug in the western world. All of these substances have large subcultures associated with them. But salvinorin A is an obscure, recently discovered psychoactive compound with dubious entheogenic value. It's not exactly dear to a lot of people's hearts. It's not going to be like alcohol prohibition. Aside from a few devoted psychonauts, no-one's really going to go to the trouble of trying to obtain salvia after it's banned - because you'd pretty much have to grow it. It doesn't have the kind of demand needed for it to be plentiful on the black market. While the drug discussion focuses mainly on intoxicants and analgesics like marijuana, alcohol, and opiates, all the really interesting, potentially enlightening substances like LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, ketamine, DMT, 2ct7, and salvia have either been banned for decades, or are about to be added to the DEA's psychedelic shitlist, and the only people who have made much of a peep in recent years are Bill Hicks and Terence McKenna. I wish people would fight harder for the right to experience boundary dissolving shamanic states of mind, rather than merely the right to get "stoned". Luckily, I live in Canada, where Salvia is still legal. But it seems like there is a domino effect in drug criminalization - Salvia was banned in Australia, a few months ago. I only hope my own nation will stand against this growing assault on cognitive liberty. life is an elaborate joke of some kind, salvia is the punchline   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   23.  Re: Ban it!   by crowley       at Tue 29 Oct 10:14am score of 1   in reply to comment 22     I was being sarcastic, so I apologize for that not being more obvious. What's wrong with admitting that there are substances people ingest in one or another, because it's enjoyable? Why does this have to be hidden in rhetoric about opening your mind, shamanism, or spiritual experiences? People don't drink and say it's religious. Why does that have to be said about pot or LSD?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   27.  Re: Ban it!   by Hector the Crow       at Tue 29 Oct 9:34pm score of 1   in reply to comment 23     I know you were being sarcastic. That's why the substance of my post was an argument to the opposite of your stated position (i.e. that people WOULD in fact continue taking salvia). I don't think people will continue taking it after the ban because it's never been in high demand. I never said there was anything wrong with people take drugs purely for pleasure. I don't know how you inferred from my post that I had anything against this practice. I guess what I was saying was that while I believe people have the right to get as smashed, bombed, stoned, shitfaced, and fucked-up as they like, there is a more important family of drugs, salvia being a member - the spiritual and mind-expanding drugs (yes, I believe that stuff through personal experience with psychedelics) that is not being fought for with anywhere near the zeal of the pot-legalization people - and that has been illustrated by the recent ban on 2ct7 and now the proposed ban on salvia. People don't drink and say it's religious. That would be because drinking alcohol simply doesn't induce religious or spiritual or mystical (or however you want to define it) experiences. Maybe there are exceptions, but I would guess they'd generally be based on an unusual context. On the other side of the coin - LSD and psilocybin, at sufficient doses, are almost guaranteed to induce these experiences, regardless of the individual or the context. It's pointless to make comparisons between alcohol and LSD. life is an elaborate joke of some kind, salvia is the punchline   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

18.  I've tried it   by burningman       at Mon 28 Oct 2:40pm score of 2 brilliant     I tried this drug 2 months ago. I can only state my one isolated view, but from stories my 'guide' told me, mine was not atypical. I don't think this drug will ever become widely popular UNLESS it is banned. I've done the usual hallucinogens-mushrooms, LSD-but Salvia is not something you take and wander off for a night of strange wonderment. Instead, you get 5-10 minutes of the most intense experience you've ever had (mine was as jarring as the Neo-wakes-up-in-the-soupy-goo scene of the Matrix, but less sticky and FAR more intense), a few more minutes of rubbery legs and then you spend the next day or so trying to understand what you saw. This is NOT a party drug. I am glad I tried it and may do so again sometime, but I'm VERY glad I've tried other less potent drugs first-this should not be anyone's first trip! (I also cannot stress the importance of an experienced guide to watch over you!) One of the stories I've read about this in the past few days stated that about $5000 worth of the plant have been sold in the past YEAR (can that be right?). Hey Uncle Sam-want to push those numbers into the Billion$? Make it illegal.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

20.  Re: I've tried it   by Degaz       at Mon 28 Oct 8:06pm score of 1   in reply to comment 18     I've had mixed feelings about the stuff. I can see it's spiritual potential but at the same time it's something that you try once and put it away for a long time. Makes me sweaty. I had my bro smoke some and he was laughing so hard I thought he was gonna piss himself. I gave it to the guy next to him and the guy spaced out for a good minute before saying "I just came back for my beer then I'm takin off again." It's for sure unlike anything else on the planet.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

24.  Salvia as a party drug   by lordofthepants       at Tue 29 Oct 11:54am score of 1     I'm going to be the odd one out and say that back when I was in college, I and a large number of friends used Salvia exclusively as a party drug. The most remarkable thing about the substance, besides the way it makes you feel as if you truly understand the consciousness of burning plastic (or something), is that while very few people are willing to spontaneously experiment with most esoteric psychedelics in the middle of a crowded party, if you tell them that you have a sack full of a short acting Mexican hallucinagenic mint and would they like to smoke it out of a bong, most folks seem curiously willing to indulge without any hesitation. We ended up dishing out Salvia to a very large and mostly unprepared sample population over time. Was this very wise? Probably no. Did I end up spazzing on a number of occasions and crawling frightened and drooling under a couch, unable to form a single coherent thought? Oh God yes. Did I ever see anyone have a really bad problem? Not really, especially not compared to the lunatic shit I've seen people do under the influence of other compounds. Its more interesting as a novelty than anything else, but I disagree that it has no recreational potential.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

25.  Banned because of association   by dthrall       at Tue 29 Oct 12:08pm score of 1     I don't believe that the true reason for Lady Salvia being banned is because of the psychoactive properties directly... as has been mentioned, it is extremely short-acting and intense. It is in a classification of its own, yet it is being sold as "Legal Pot" and "Legal LSD", of which it is neither... The problem lies in the dishonest marketing strategies...   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]