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| | | | | TRL Protest Falls On Durst Ears | | | | | found on Chart Attack
written by BrotherMcKenzie, edited by Colin (Plastic) [ read unedited ]
posted Thu 17 Oct 6:44am | | | | |
 | "A group of NYU students, mistakenly under the impression that MTV and its audience cared about anything other than packaged commercialism, decided to bring an anti-war message to Total Request Live's youthful audience," BrotherMcKenzie writes. "They obtained tickets to the show, and wore sweaters covering up T-shirts with messages criticizing the nation's impending attack on Iraq. They sat through a portion of the show, then stormed the stage and urged kids in the studio and across the country to stop the war. They were quickly scuttled off the stage. Reportedly, TRL guest (and packaged rebellion specialist) Fred Durst was miffed by the whole thing. While it's no secret that MTV and the acts it promotes are not politically active in any meaningful way, shouldn't the station at least try to educate its audience? Are MTV viewers so brainwashed by pretty pictures that they can't see the world outside the television?"
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[ more plastic... ] |
| | | | | | | 1. is this shocking? | | | | by j2 |  | | | at Thu 17 Oct 6:59am | score of 1 intriguing | | | | | | |
of course fred durst was pissed. it takes away from his balding mug being on the screen and all of his "jock rock" posturing. of course mtv likes to fight the good fight - but only if it can be packaged in a nice, heavily produced "mtv news" segment full of their "impartial" views.
it is about time people shook things up and the "drone" factory. maybe one or two kids saw they protest and thought "hey, maybe this war wouldn't, like, be a good thing." we can only hope.
when all is said and done, i will be dead.
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| | | | | | 8. Re: is this shocking? | | | | by stankow | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 9:05am | score of 1.5 helpful | | in reply to comment 7 | | | | | |
That's the thing, right there -- when Michael Stipe wore half a dozen different political-slogan T-shirts to the stage at the Video Music Awards back in '91, MTV loved it. They showed every one as many times as they could.
The difference, of course, is that he didn't run up on stage during the Most Scantily Clad Female Artist award and unveil a new T-shirt -- he waited his turn and expressed his views rationally.
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| | | | | 10. Re: is this shocking? | | | | by Eppy | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 9:26am | score of 1.5 funny | | in reply to comment 8 | | | | | |
Well, he didn't express them rationally so much as via t-shirt, which is more polite than rational, really. But polite is good, too.
Personally, I think they kept showing them because it was a pretty funny joke, which is how I suspect most of the audience regarded it. I can't remember any of the actual t-shirts he wore anymore, although I'd guess one was about gun control, another was about the environment, and maybe one about abortion. I dunno.
Were I to win an MTV award, I would wear a shirt featuring a picture of Hilary Rosen with a cock in her mouth. But that's just me.
"ninja, fuck, baby, special olympics"
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| | | | | 25. Re: is this shocking? | | | | by JeremyT | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 1:41pm | score of 1.5 helpful | | in reply to comment 10 | | | | | |
Were I to win an MTV award, I would wear a shirt featuring a picture of Hilary Rosen with a cock in her mouth. But that's just me.
Make it two, and my fingertips will be bloody from dialing in to vote for you when your album comes out.
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| | | | | 64. Re: is this shocking? | | | | by Dr Firesign | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 4:25pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 8 | | | | | |
The ONLY reason that mtv (note lack of capitalization) showed that was because REM was popular back then and if he did it now then he would have been either asked to take them off or he would be "removed." They only show anything that can make THEM money. They don't care for any political views. If they can't make money on it then they won't show it. Unless of course it can somehow give them more ratings (i.e. mtv news).
who am us anyway???
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| | | | | 69. Re: is this shocking? | | | | by dthrall | | | | at Tue 29 Oct 12:59pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 64 | | | | | |
MTV is a *COMMERCIAL* "music" station that has a wide audience it needs to appeal to... There is just as much variance in the views of their employees as there is across the world. As has been mentioned, running around stage like idiots in the middle of a live television show filming is disrespectful and unacceptable behavior in the eyes of the staff and probably many viewers as well... *THIS* is the reason for being escorted away... If you ran around any other commercial business doing these types of things, you would probably be asked to leave as well...
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| | | | | | 2. All easy angst aside... | | | | by Eppy |  | | | at Thu 17 Oct 7:17am | score of 5 helpful | | | | | | |
People who watch MTV don't only watch MTV. (Really. I swear.) If there isn't any "hard news" on MTV--you know, a music channel[1]--that doesn't necessarily mean that their viewers don't know that, say, we're about to go to war with Iraq. Personally, I remember the last time MTV tried to impart a political consciousness on its audience. It was called "Rock the Vote." It sucked. You know why? Because it didn't take any position on any issues. Other than "you should vote" (although I suppose that, technically speaking, the Republicans do oppose that position in terms of MTV-watchers). And that is because MTV is a huge commercial entity, and therefore cannot espouse particular political views, especially ones as controversial as "oppose the war." I don't mean this as some sort of Marxist critique--I actually think that's a good thing. Because if MTV did try to substantively address any political issues, it would be retarded. They can't even play much good music--do you really want them trying to deal with complex political issues?
So where does that leave us as an outlet for politics? Where it's always been: in art, and in this case, music. It's weird that everyone seems so opposed to politics in music (probably because they've heard some pretty shitty political music, which I admit is a problem) but is all gung-ho about wanting, say, MTV to teach its children well. Fuck that! I don't want the fuckers who are soliciting commercials to be moderating political discussions--I'd like the artists who are, even if only slightly, more independent to start participating in a discourse. You can't just give people a consciousness, but you can direct them to places where they can learn more, and music is a great way to do that. And, I think, it's what the NYU students were trying to do--awaken kids to the idea of alternatives. (They were also clearly trying to get laid, but that's OK too.)
Just because people listen to--oh, what's the phrase..."packaged commercialism" (as opposed to unpacked commercialism?)--doesn't mean that they can't possibly care a thing about politics. (Most of today's activist generation was raised on Bon Jovi and Tiffany, so there you go.) Remember: just because you don't watch MTV (or won't admit to watching MTV) and have a political consciousness doesn't mean that people who do watch MTV don't know anything about politics.
[1] First person who posts the obligatory "Well that's funny, because they don't seem to play much music" comment gets hunted down and killed. I'm serious.
"ninja, fuck, baby, special olympics"
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| | | | | | 12. Re: All easy angst aside... | | | | by jimray |  | | | at Thu 17 Oct 10:29am | score of 2.5 interesting | | in reply to comment 2 | | | | | |
[obligatory]Odd, because I can't remember the last time I saw a music video on MTV that wasn't rudely interrupted by screaming TRL fans. Of course, that might have something to do with my lacking a television.[/obligatory] Bring it, Eppy. I live in Chicago, message me if you want the address for the big hunt.
Now, beyond just a snarky response, what about MTV's blatant refusal to air anything beyond simplistic politcal diatribe? What about their refusal to air Chuck D or El-P's latest videos? They certainly have that right, of course, it's their station, they can air the 34th annual chainsaw sharpening competition if they so desire.
BUT...if there's no outlet for "politics in music" what's the point. I agree that MTV should stay the fuck out of politics, but at least don't get in the way. By placing roadblocks to artists like Chuck D, that are intentionally stirring up trouble, MTV is just proving that they are more concerned about selling Noxema than anything else.
I suppose what angers me the most about MTV is that they have the opportunity to do some really innovative, thought provoking stuff, but they don't. Their version of innovation is skinny white guys diving in raw sewage or yet another Real World ("this time, we'll have threesomes!").
"You're not thinking, you're just being logical" Bohr to Einstein during a debate on quantum mechanics
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| | | | | 14. Re: All easy angst aside... | | | | by Eppy | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 10:49am | score of 2 helpful | | in reply to comment 12 | | | | | |
What about their refusal to air Chuck D or El-P's latest videos?
From an interview with Mr. P:
"...I really knew this when I was making the video. Me and [the director] sat down and I was like, 'Look, we're going to make a video that's going to be impossible to be seen anywhere.'"
It's hard for me to get too mad at MTV not playing a video that was made not to be played, y'know? I have issues with them not playing videos that go far beyond that, although they did, if I recall, play the fairly political video from At the Drive-In a few years back. But I don't necessarily think videos are where the political content of a song be evidenced.
BUT...if there's no outlet for "politics in music" what's the point. I agree that MTV should stay the fuck out of politics, but at least don't get in the way. By placing roadblocks to artists like Chuck D, that are intentionally stirring up trouble, MTV is just proving that they are more concerned about selling Noxema than anything else.
Well...yeah, they are. I mean, I don't think people have a whole lot of illusions about that. Neither does MTV.
I suppose what angers me the most about MTV is that they have the opportunity to do some really innovative, thought provoking stuff, but they don't.
No, they really don't have the opportunity to do innovative stuff. I mean, they do, insomuch as I have the opportunity to win the triple crown, but it's ludicrous to think that it's gonna happen. They are quite possibly the biggest player in the music biz today, and when you're the biggest player you're not going to take too many risks. I don't think they're really the proper avenue to be focusing on, and if you are going to try and deal with MTV, questioning their dedication to political speech is certainly the wrong way to go about it. MTV has the kind of stranglehold on popular culture that we would never abide in politics, but they're just one of many, many institutions that would need to be reformed before music can return to the kind of freedom it once, presumably, had. In the meantime, it needs to keep doing what it's always done, when it's good: carve out little spaces of freedom within the culture for something to slip through. This in itself is a political act, and is really the most I can ask for. That they substantively address complex issues is nice, too, but I'm not going to be holding my breath. And I'm definitely not too anxious to see it on MTV. The kind of political repression they're practicing goes far beyond not airing the simplistic viewpoints of people like El-P. People can still get that if they want it. (The discussion in the interview regarding the video ended with the conclusion, "Well, the people that really wanted to see it got to see it.") There is a thriving underground right now, which is really nice, but I just wish that underground was more willing to address politics in a productive way. That seems far more crucial to me than whether MTV is hosting debates, at least at this juncture. We can all agree that blocking videos simply because they have political content is bad, but let's not go overboard.
"ninja, fuck, baby, special olympics"
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| | | | | 18. Re: All easy angst aside... | | | | by jimray | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 11:14am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 14 | | | | | |
Yeah, I read that pitchfork interview with El-P as well--in fact, it's how I knew that he even put out a video (that MTV didn't play).
That MTV won't change simply because they're the biggest player in the music biz (debatable, but I'll bite) is precisely me beef. Just like my beef with Microsoft (oh, shit, the crowd groans, here we go). When you own your audience/market in the way that MTV/MS does, it seems logical to me that you've got some breathing room at that point. You've got some room to take some chances, to do some innovating stuff, be it create a useful operating system or produce compelling content about music. At the end of the day, you might loose a few members of your core audience. But who gives a fuck, right--I mean, is Bill Gates suddenly not going to be able to make a house payment because MS only has 89% of the desktop locked up instead of 90%?
The problem is, neither of these want be innovative, they want to be totally dominating. It's not enough to be the biggest player in their market, they have to be the ONLY player and crush anything else in their respective paths to world domination.
Regardless, I couldn't agree more about the proper avenue, bit. MTV plays it's very vital and necessary role of the giant that the underground is perpetually up against. It's good, it's a healthy thing, I suppose.
"You're not thinking, you're just being logical" Bohr to Einstein during a debate on quantum mechanics
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| | | | | 20. Re: All easy angst aside... | | | | by alaffin | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 11:22am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 18 | | | | | |
Did it ever occur to you that they got to be the biggest players on the scene by always getting there second? You don't take unnecessary risks if you want to stay on top. Sure, you have to take the necessary ones and the ability to determine exactly what those are contributes to the success of any big corporation.
And at the end of the day that's what MTV is. It's not in their best interests to promote any real idology. They promote an image and that's all they have to sell.
satire
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| | | | | 35. Re: All easy angst aside... | | | | by rockstar69 | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 2:56pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 18 | | | | | |
ahhhh! And that is where you are mistaken. Do you think MTV and Microsoft got to where they are today because their 'product' was better than the competition? Or because they secured themselves in 'other' ways? Lest not forget that even a big company can fall once its supports are quickly removed.
mmmmm...the wonders of monopolies......
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| | | | | 44. Re: All easy angst aside... | | | | by fungrrl | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 8:26pm | score of 1.5 astute | | in reply to comment 2 | | | | | |
And that is because MTV is a huge commercial entity, and therefore cannot espouse particular political views
Hmmm, my first thought when I read that Mtv sent J-LO over to Germany to party with the army boys (obviously to show young viewers how much fun it was to be governmental property) was, 'wow talk about political propaganda!'
I have amazing news for you. Man is not alone on this planet. -Ishmael
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| | | | | | 3. Wrong Venue | | | | by eduardo | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 7:25am | score of 2.5 brilliant | | | | | | |
Trying to bring politics to MTV is exactly the same as trying to bring music videos onto MSNBC.
Of course the students were kicked out - they stormed the stage and disrupted the show. That, and not their political views, are what got surpressed.
While it's no secret that MTV and the acts it promotes are not politically active in any meaningful way, shouldn't the station at least try to educate its audience?
Why should it? Turn on PBS for education.
Are MTV viewers so brainwashed by pretty pictures that they can't see the world outside the television?
Probably. But that's not a conclusion this story leads to.
J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.
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| | | | | | 17. Re: Wrong Venue | | | | by cerebrator | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 11:08am | score of 2 astute | | in reply to comment 3 | | | | | |
Trying to bring politics to MTV is exactly the same as trying to bring music videos onto MSNBC.
Cookie, that doesn't hold up. The featured musicians and video directors have already brought politics to MTV. Pop music has always been political. Not all of it; not every artist; not every song by certain artists; not just the overt protest songs. Here's a pretty good article about Snoop's work being political. Here's an interesting article about Eminem. Here's one on DMX.
I'm not saying that the talking heads at MTV should be more "political." But viewers should be cognizant of the politics that are already there. Music isn't "just" music.
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| | | | | 21. Re: Wrong Venue | | | | by eduardo | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 12:22pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 17 | | | | | |
You're right, C. I was just amazed that the writeup implied MTV should have allowed the disruption to continue - and thus everything in the writeup was suspect to me. You're certainly right about music carying a message. But that doesn't mean MTV has to become CSPAN. (I know you're not arguing it should.)
J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.
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| | | | | 54. Re: Wrong Venue | | | | by MazMan007 | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 9:51am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 3 | | | | | |
I totally agree with this post, and the ones below it relating to bringing politics to MTV. MTV is a MUSIC channel. That is why it's called Music Television. If people want to learn what is going on, they will go watch MSNBC or CNN. Politics should not be brought into the MTV network. It should be left as is with MTV news letting us now what is going on in the music world. When people watch MTV that all they care about is the music. They watch it to get away from all what is going on. Then when they are done watching if they want, they can turn on CNN and see what is going on.
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| | | | | | 4. non-sequitur | | | | by Bearpaw | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 7:31am | score of 1.5 astute | | | | | | |
Are MTV viewers so brainwashed by pretty pictures that they can't see the world outside the television?
It wasn't MTV viewers that booted the protesters off of the stage. For all you know, a significant chunk of the viewers were think, "Hey, let 'em stay! I want to hear what this is all about!"
If any of those viewers wrote or called MTV to say so, do you think MTV would admit it? Although if there was a significant outcry, MTV might be tempted to tap into that market segment.
(Anyone else out there read Norman Spinrad's "Pictures at 11"?)
Proud member of the reality-based minority.
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| | | | | | 48. Re: non-sequitur | | | | by eduardo | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 10:48pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 4 | | | | | |
It wasn't MTV viewers that booted the protesters off of the stage. For all you know, a significant chunk of the viewers were think, "Hey, let 'em stay! I want to hear what this is all about!"
Um no. Pick up remote, click click, this is CNN.
J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.
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| | | | | | 5. Yes, MTV should educate their viewers | | | | by pico | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 8:11am | score of 1.5 astute | | | | | | |
about good music and not the Pop/Hip-Hop crap they play all the time.
Seriously, why should MTV have to air news about Iraq, or for that reason any news, since they are a music channel? Should SportsCenter set aside ten minutes out of every hour for current world events?
No.
ESPN's goal is not to inform viewers on the Israel-Palestine conflict or the impending attack on Iraq, its goal is to relay sports information. In the same way, MTV's goals are to entertain viewers with videos and music related shows. If kids want to learn about foreign politics, they have a remote and can change the channel to a news station at any time.
Lord loves a workin' man, don't trust whitey, see a doctor and get rid of it
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| | | | | | 15. Actually, | | | | by kilroy | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 11:02am | score of 1.5 astute | | in reply to comment 5 | | | | | |
MTV's goals are to entertain viewers with videos and music related shows.
I believe MTV's goals are as follows:
Phase 1 is to attract the maximum number of viewers within the lucrative teenage demographic.
Phase 2 is to convince advertisers to pay them handsomely for the right to play commercials which target that audience.
Phase 3 is profit.
I might be wrong, but I get the sneaking suspicion that MTV doesn't give a fuck about educating it's viewers, or even music, really, so much as they care about maximizing Phase 3. This might have something to do with the prevalence of that pop-rock crap.
You think people will still be using napkins in the year 2000? Or is this mouth vacuum thing for real?
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| | | | | | 6. MTV SUX | | | | by Pax |  | | | at Thu 17 Oct 8:52am | score of 4.5 brilliant | | | | | | |
Standard post form for MTV discussions:
[Please start with]
They don't play any music... why are they even called MTV?! What happened to the Music part, man?
All they play are [pick one]:
* boy bands
* teenyboppers
* hip-hop
* rap
* that damn Britney Spears
What happened to variety, man? Why won't they play any of my [incredibly obscure, no-one knows who they are] bands anymore?
MTV hasn't been relevant since
[Number should correspond to the year when you were last part of MTV's targeted demographic.]
* 1985
* 1990
* 1995
* 2000
I remember when MTV started covering the
* 1992
* 1996
* 2000
election. It was amazing back then, but since that, they've really slacked off. It's not even relevant anymore.
MTV isn't a place for activism / deep thought, it's the place for [Pick as many as you'd like]:
* Poor documentaries about bands (Diary)
* Poor documentaries about average people (Real Life: I'm a ...)
* Poor documentaries about 7 people in a totally unrealistic living situation (Real World)
* Crappy album flogathons (TRL)
I watch
* VH1
* MuchMusic, up here in Canada
* MuchMusic, a Canadian channel I get on my cable
* MTV2
instead because they actually play music videos.
[Insert signoff here.]
Please fill out this form for all discussions about MTV. It will make your life and the life of Plastic readers easier. Thank you.
Evil, pure and simple, from the eighth dimension
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| | | | | | 42. Re: MTV SUX | | | | by goombah |  | | | at Thu 17 Oct 6:54pm | score of 0.5 | | in reply to comment 6 | | | | | |
They don't play any music... why are they even called MTV?! What happened to the Music part, man?
All they play are teenyboppers! MTV hasn't been relevant since 1995. I remember when MTV started covering the 1992 election. It was amazing back then, but since that, they've really slacked off. It's not even relevant anymore. MTV isn't a place for activism / deep thought, it's the place for Poor documentaries about 7 people in a totally unrealistic living situation (Real World).
I watch MuchMusic, up here in Canada instead because they actually play music videos.
Goombah :)
one two three four five six seven, all good children go to heaven....
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| | | | | | 13. Educating the audience? | | | | by kilroy | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 10:45am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Is it just me, or does the write-up suggest that the anti-war protest was an "educational" event? I mean, I agree with the anti-war message, but a bunch of college kids with signs shouting "not in our name" is not exactly a Noam Chomsky seminar.
And while it's fun to bag on MTV, it's not like they're being ham-fisted here. I can guarantee that staging an anti-war protest during a PBS telethon will also get you tossed the fuck out of the building mighty quick. The only difference being that PBS' sweater-vest wearing security probably use pepper-spray, while MTV's ex-roadie goons likely favor a head-butt followed by a swift kick to the kidneys.
You think people will still be using napkins in the year 2000? Or is this mouth vacuum thing for real?
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| | | | | | 39. And if I were a conservative... | | | | by billmcn | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 4:16pm | score of 1.5 interesting | | in reply to comment 13 | | | | | |
...I would be outraged by MTV's refusal to educate its audience about such vital issues as the unfairness of the Death Tax, the danger posed by Saddam Hussein, or the pervasive liberal bias in the media.
There's a difference between educating saying-something-I-agree-with. And it's sloppy and demagogic to confuse the two.
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| | | | | | | 22. Follow the Money | | | | by Zi | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 12:28pm | score of 4 informative | | | | | | |
MTV is not some stand alone, independent voice. They're one outlet from a huge media empire - Viacom.
To paraphrase from 1960's slang, they are the establishment. One doubts they would want or allow an anti-war protest on thier programs.
Unless, of course, it was good for the bottom line. Then
Let's follow the trail:
Viacom owns -
Broadcast and Cable
Paramount Stations Group
WUPA - Atlanta
WSBK - Boston
WWHO - Columbus
KTXA - Dallas, Ft. Worth
WKBD - Detroit
KTXH - Houston
WNDY - Indianapolis
KCAL - Los Angeles
WBFS - Miami
WLWC - New Bedford/Providence
WUPL - New Orleans
WGNT - Norfolk
KAUT - Oklahoma City
WPSG - Philadelphia
WNPA - Pittsburgh
KMAX - Sacramento
KSTW - Seattle
WTOG - Tampa
WDCA - Washington, D.C.
WTVX - West Palm Beach
KCAL - Los Angeles
UPN
The Paramount Channel
MTV: Music Television
MTV
MTV Asia (joint venture with PolyGram)
MTV Australia (licensing agreement)
MTV Brazil (joint venture with Abril S.A.)
MTV Europe
MTV India (joint venture)
MTV Indie
MTV Japan (licensing agreement)
MTV Latin America
MTV Mandarin (joint venture with PolyGram)
MTV Productions
MTV Ritmo
MTV Rocks
MTV Russia
Nickelodeon
Nickelodeon Australia (joint venture - includes News Corp.)
Nickelodeon Germany (joint venture with Ravensburger, and Bear Stearns)
Nickelodeon Hungary
Nickelodeon Iceland
Nickelodeon Latin America
Nickelodeon Nordic
Nickelodeon United Kingdom (joint venture with BSKYB)
Nick at Nite
Nick at Nite's TV Land
Nick Jr.
Nickelodeon Books
Nickelodeon Magazine
Nickelodeon Movies
Noggin
VH1
VH1 Country
VH1 Soul
VH1 Germany (joint venture with Bear Stearns)
VH1 United Kingdom
Comedy Central (joint venture with Time - Warner)
Showtime Networks Inc.
SET Pay-Per-View (pay-per-view marketer of Mike Tyson fights)
Showtime
Showtime en Espanol
Showtime Extreme
Sundance Channel (joint venture with Robert Redford, and PolyGram)
The Movie Channel
FLIX
BET - Black Enteratinment Television
BET on Jazz: The Jazz Channel
BET Action Pay Per View
BET International
BET Movies/STARZ!
BET Pictures I
TNN: The National Network
CMT: Country Music Television
Viacom Interactive Services
Viacom - Film & Television Production/Distribution
Paramount Pictures
Paramount Television
Paramount Home Video
CIC Video (joint venture)
Viacom Productions
MTV Films
MTV Productions
Nickelodeon Studios
Nickelodeon Movies
Wilshire Court Productions
Spelling Entertainment Group (80%)
Spelling Films
Spelling Television
Republic Entertainment
Big Ticket Television
Worldvision Enterprises
Hamilton Projects
Viacom - Video and Music/Parks
Retail
Blockbuster Video
Blockbuster Music
Viacom Entertainment Stores
Paramount Parks
Paramount's Carowinds (located in Charlotte, North Carolina)
Paramount's Great America (located in Santa Clara, California)
Paramount's Kings Dominion (located in Richmond, Virginia)
Paramount's Kings Island (located in Cincinnati, Ohio)
Paramount Canada's Wonderland (located in Toronto)
Raging Waters (located in San Jose, California)
Star Trek: The Experience (located in Las Vegas, Nevada)
Other
Viacom Consumer Products
Famous Music(copyright owners)
Viacom Interactive Services
Star Trek Franchise
Viacom - Publishing
Anne Schwartz Books
Archway Paperbacks and Minstrel Books
Lisa Drew Books
Fireside
The Free Press
MTV Books
Nickelodeon Books
Simon & Schuster Consumer Group
Simon & Schuster
Simon & Schuster Audio Books
Simon & Schuster Children's Publishing
Simon & Schuster Editions
Simon & Schuster Interactive
Simon & Schuster Interactive Distribution
Simon & Schuster Libros en Espanol
Pocket Books
Scribner
Star Trek
Touchstone
Washington Square Press
Viacom - Theaters and Film Distribution
Paramount Theaters
Paramount (Europe)
United Cinemas International (UCI) - (joint venture with Universal)
United International Pictures (UIP) - (joint venture with Universal)
Music
Famous Music
Famous Players
CBS Television
Television - owned and operated stations
WCBS - New York
KCBS - Los Angeles
WBBM - Chicago
WCCO - Minneapolis
WFRV - Green Bay
WWJ - Detroit
WJZ - Baltimore
WBZ - Boston
KCNC - Denver
WFOR - Miami
KYW - Philadelphia
KDKA - Pittsburgh
KUTV - Salt Lake City
KPIX - San Francisco
KEYE - Austin Cable
Group W Network Services - technology services for the cable and broadcast industries
New Media - Online
CBS.com
CBSNews.com
CBSSportsLine.Com (partial)
CBSMarketWatch.com (with Pearson PLC.)
CBSHealthWatch.com (partial)read the entire comment...
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| | | | | | 23. Re: Follow the Money | | | | by musiquestar | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 1:12pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 22 | | | | | |
I did a government project where I listed all the companies Viacom owns on some adding machine tape and wound it around the room. Ah, memories. Ah, semi-monopolies.
Wait until Viacom and Clear Channel hook up.
Your fantasies are unlikely, but beautiful.
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| | | | | | 27. Dear Plastic | | | | by SteamboatDreamboat | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 1:49pm | score of 1.5 obnoxious | | | | | | |
Dear Plastic Member,
You are one of the few. You like to stay informed of the latest developments in politics, culture, and world news. You are thoughtful, educated, and literate. You have strong beliefs, but you're open to discussion about those beliefs.
Guess what. The rest of the world isn't like you. The average kid who watched MTV doesn't care about what's happening in the middle or far east. Most of the people you see at the grocery store don't necessarily have the same level of thoughtfulness or education that you have. You are a lone wolf in a sea of sheep. MTV doesn't care about you. MTV cares about the sheep.
Switching gears; social disobedience is never accepted by the ruling society with open arms. That's why it's called social disobedience. The kids who stormed the show made two statements. The first was about U.S. foreign policy. The second was about the true intentions of MTV. The accomplished absolutely everything that they could have reasonably hoped for, and much more. After all, they didn't wind up in jail.
"When life hands you lemons, make coffee... and then you'll have the desire to make lemonade." --Jon Friedman
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| | | | | | 28. Brilliant | | | | by MrTripps | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 2:02pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
The protesters should be commended for a great media jamming act. The intended audience isn't MTV viewers, but people who read about the event after the fact (people like us).
If MTV had half a nut sack they would air it again and again. It's the most interesting thing they have had for years (except the new Pearl Jam video :).
"It feels like Independence Day and I can't break away from this parade." -The Wallflowers
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| | | | | | 29. Future programming | | | | by tomc | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 2:03pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
I think that MTV is hoping there will be a war, so they can make hay broadcasting all the music that our soldiers listen to while they're in the Middle East. They know it's only going to be 20 songs in extreme rotation, a method they already have down.
ham sandwich
No Pussyfooting
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| | | | | | 31. You're forgetting the point... | | | | by Chachee | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 2:05pm | score of 2 helpful | | | | | | |
While all your comments are valid and MTV is a completely bland and shallow corporation, you all are missing the point. These protestors have taught us the greatest lesson of all, which is: With sweatshirts and tickets to TRL, we can stop MTV!!! So stop all your bickering about MTV and how it sucks the soul out of the youth of the world, instead stand up for what you believe in! Let's go buy tickets to TRL and [this is crucial] WEAR SWEATERS!! Then we'll storm on stage and whine about something...what were we whining about? Oh right, MTV sucking! Keep in mind, this idea is not limited to protesting MTV. Kids, don't like your vegetables? MTV and sweaters have an answer for you! Wives, husbands cheating on you? Well use his money to buy yourself a ticket to TRL and a sweater! Mr. President, nobody listening to you? I'm sure you can sneak into TRL! But don't forget (and I can't emphasize this enough) the key to MTV's (and anyone else's) demise is SWEATERS!!! Those things your grandma sews for you! Those lame Christmas presents! Get em, wear em, protest! Thank you all for your time!
-The Sweater Corporations of America
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| | | | | | 32. my two cents | | | | by chiaboy | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 2:26pm | score of 2 nuanced | | | | | | |
I agree with much of what's being said above. "Mtv is symbolic of the dumbing of America", "Viacom owns 13% of my brain DNA", "Kids with their loud crappy music" etc. Let me offer a bit of a bit of additional defense. Maybe they "don't care" because they are totally disaffected by it all. You know how supposedly the political races do the same to us? All the negative ads, candidates that are essentially indistinguishable from each other, beholden to big-money special interests, etc. That is the (often valid) excuse we often you for a sense of disassociation with the political process. We don't vote. We don't educate ourselves about the issues. In short we "don't care". I think that is similar to what is going on with the Mtv audience with the added twist of them being subjected to this bizarrely post-post-Modern world where right and wrong are so difficult to distinguish. (couple that with the overriding angst and ennui that sometimes is a part of being a teenager) I mean for Goodness sake, somedays I want to liberate Iraq, create some stability in the Middle East, and militarily work towards the goals of like-minded peaceful nations. The next day I think Bush is being totally vindictive, shortsighted, and duplicitous. And I think there are a lot of really smart people who have strong reservations about either "side" when it comes the war in Iraq. So if an "average" black, 33 year old, libertarian, San Franciscan, professional like me can be as conflicted about this VERY complex issue, isn't it reasonable for a teenager to be so as well? And in this deconstructionist's paradise that we all live in paralysis leads to detachment. Detachment leads us to distraction. And when we need our daily fix of distraction, who better than the good folks at Viacom to give it to us? Give em a break. They are just kids.
Can a puma challenge a lion for king of the jungle?
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| | | | | | 33. Packaged Rebellion | | | | by matuko |  | | | at Thu 17 Oct 2:28pm | score of 3.5 astute | | | | | | |
Who but white, middle-class, college graduate boomers continue to hold on to the fantasy that rock music is by its very nature political, rebellious, and iconoclastic?
I'm sure it felt that way at one time, but now it is only used in car commercials to make people over 50 think that they're still outside the mainstream.
Of course MTV threw them out - but it's not the equivalent of censoring Jim Morrison's lyrics or Elvis' hips, which weren't political statements, although they are remembered as such by a certain generation.
Any music program from the '60's and '70's would have done exactly what TRL did.
"The brotherhood of man is no mere poet's dream. It is a most depressing and humiliating reality." (Wilde)
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| | | | | | 40. Re: Packaged Rebellion | | | | by nme! | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 4:59pm | score of 1.5 astute | | in reply to comment 33 | | | | | |
Sounds like the only Rock and Roll you get comes from car commercials.
-nme!
Virgo: (Aug. 23 - Sept. 22) It's all over but the shouting, but don't worry: It's going to be great shouting.
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| | | | | 53. Re: Packaged Rebellion | | | | by matuko | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 9:03am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 40 | | | | | |
Yes, the only "rock and roll" one gets from television is on car commercials - that was part of my point.
Ten years from now all the hipper-than-thou cognoscenti bands you listen to will be on those commercials, as well - trust me.
"The brotherhood of man is no mere poet's dream. It is a most depressing and humiliating reality." (Wilde)
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| | | | | 55. Re: Packaged Rebellion | | | | by nme! | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 10:23am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 53 | | | | | |
"Hipper Than Thou"?
Allright, I admit it. You pissed me off. Way to troll.
I'm not talking about "Alternative" bands on a subsidiary of a major label. I'm not even talking about full-on indie cred bands like Big Black. I'm talking about basement bands that'll never make a record. Bar bands who play for soused idiots every weekend. Because they (we) fucking love playing music. Real musicians have day jobs. Everyone in my group does. We've never been paid for a show. Never. And yet we'll drive hours to play.
So when you say that rock&roll is "only used in car commercials to make people over 50 think that they're still outside the mainstream" and speculate that the bands that I listen to are "hipper-than-thou",it gets my goat. What a ridiculous dividing line you've put up. It is possible to have music, even rock&roll music, that exists outside of a marketing niche. I know you think that you're smart for seeing through MTV's facade, but hey, most of us are over 12 years old too.
-nme!
Virgo: (Aug. 23 - Sept. 22) It's all over but the shouting, but don't worry: It's going to be great shouting.
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| | | | | | 46. Cause Isn't Stupid, but The Means Are | | | | by armaxmore | | | | at Thu 17 Oct 9:09pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
If these NYU students thought their move to get their anti-war message to the masses would work, it did. They just didn't choose the right spot to do it. TRL has never been a place for settle social issues. It nothing more than to show off the acts we either used to like or never liked to begin with. They could have went to Guerilla News Network to let their anti-war message be seen worldwide. Instead, it makes them look foolish as the idiot who sent the this phony petition. As one Anti-IMF points out, we're not in the mainstream. Those involved in the protest did something. It gave us something other than another Limp Bizkit album to talk about.
Talk is Cheap! Free Speech Isn't!
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| | | | | | 51. A thought experiment for Plasticians... | | | | by UncleBeef | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 8:19am | score of 1.5 astute | | | | | | |
"While it's no secret that MTV and the acts it promotes are not politically active in any meaningful way, shouldn't the station at least try to educate its audience? Are MTV viewers so brainwashed by pretty pictures that they can't see the world outside the television?"
Let's pretend that, instead of pacifists, the stage rushers were NRA members or pro-life activists. Would you still want MTV to let them take a few minutes to "educate" the spectators?
I think it's safe to say television shows shouldn't be hijacked for political causes, regardless of what your opinion of those causes might be.
-UncleBeef
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| | | | | | 52. Re: A thought experiment for Plasticians... | | | | by Erik Riker-Coleman | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 8:54am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 51 | | | | | |
I think it's safe to say television shows shouldn't be hijacked for political causes, regardless of what your opinion of those causes might be.
I don't know.. While I think rushing an MTV stage wearing "radical" t-shirts is a pathetically dilletante-ish excuse for activism, I have a hard time seeing any interruption to television purveyors' programmed fare as a bad thing.
stand up, keep fighting.
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| | | | | 58. A thought experiment for Mr.Beef | | | | by AFROSEXOLOGIST | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 10:42am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 51 | | | | | |
Last i checked it is still a constitutional right for most law biding Americans to own a gun. Owning a gun, believing in the constitutional right to own a gun or just believing in the Constitution itself does not make someone violent. Nor does it make one a pro-life activist. Neither does a membership in the NRA. When you join the NRA you dont get a pro-life activist club membership either.
Being a Republican doesn't make you violent.
Being a Democrat doesn't make you a dope smoking hippy.
Now, think Mr. Beef. Think.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."-Goldwater
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| | | | | 63. Re: A thought experiment for Mr.Beef | | | | by UncleBeef | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 4:24pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 58 | | | | | |
Thinking... hmmm. I think you:
A) are completely incoherent
OR
B) have not really read my article and are busily refuting a bunch of arguments that I didn't made about the NRA, republicans, gun ownership, etc.
Since I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, I'll presume B. I do not oppose the constitution or gun ownership.
-UncleBeef
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| | | | | | 56. MTV Is My Primary Source for Political Discourse | | | | by NoCureForFools | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 10:27am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
their unflinching coverage of the East Coast/West Coast Hip Hop War of the mid-90s was (and continues to be) among the most daring cross-marketed advertainment blocs ever produced in the history of fake news. when Kurt Loder interviewed Suge Night, it was, like, um, totally phat. i mean, like, he was like, in total danger of having a cap busted in his ass, yo. i just think that MTV is really, like, dedicated to "keeping it real" (TM) and these NYU kids with their protest or whatever are so totally wack and so totally not "down with the posse" (TM) of MTVs totally bling bling multinational media conglomerates and their phat lawyers. yo, rock the vote! or... just buy some shiznit, yo! same difference! it's all good...
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| | | | | | 65. East Coast/West Coast=fun! | | | | by JKConsult | | | | at Fri 18 Oct 6:05pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 56 | | | | | |
The funniest question that's ever been asked of me: to quickly set the scene, my dad was (and is) a typical late 40's, early 50's white male. He listens to talk radio, he skips the entertainment section of the newspaper. Now, as I'm sitting on the couch watching TV the summer after my freshman year of college, in a commercial break during SNL, he looks over at me and in all sincerity asks "So, what's up with this whole East Coast/West Coast thing?" I thought I was going to stroke out.
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| | | | | | 67. ha! | | | | by CAronen | | | | at Sat 19 Oct 11:17am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
What I don't understand is why would anyone who wanted to protest anything go on Mtv? I stoped watching Mtv when the stoped being Music Television and became something that has no social redeeming qualities. If someone wanted to tell me about being Anti-War I'd be more willing to listen if they tried to make the world's biggest sandwich for peace, than if they went on trl. But that's my 2 cents.
"Remember when Mtv was cool? Oh yea right..."
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