Berkeley Chancellor Overrules Students, Allows Patriotic Displays
	found on Daily Californian written by Brian Jones, edited by Nick (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Fri 6 Sep 4:40pm
		"It's now been corroborated and updated by the main student newspaper: Cal-Berkeley chancellor Robert Berdahl has overruled students who wished to prohibit many patriotic displays this coming September 11. '[Graduate Assembly President] Jessica [Quindel] does not speak for the university. I speak for the university,' Berdahl said. '(Red, white and blue) ribbons don't offend anyone.' "Dutifully covering his keister, Berdahl characterized the original Cal Patriot report on the flap as 'outrageous allegations', but Patriot staffers say they confirmed their report through several independent sources."

[ more plastic... ]    

show almost all: 24 commentsbest: 4 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

2.  Ribbons offending people...   by rombuu       at Fri 6 Sep 6:42pm score of 4 astute     I sure would like to know where these college students think that they have the right not to be offended in the first place. Strange ideas they have out there... http://drlunch.com The site that helps you decide where to go to lunch!   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

15.  Re: Ribbons offending people...   by wicked_sprite       at Sun 8 Sep 3:54pm score of 1   in reply to comment 2     Beautifully stated rombu. Unfortunately this idea seems to have proliferated throughout American culture, and not just "out there". I wish I had a mod point for ya..   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   25.  Re: Ribbons offending people...   by Anonymouse Savant       at Mon 9 Sep 2:37pm score of 1   in reply to comment 15     Actually, they, along with flag bumper stickers don't exactly offend me, they just drive me crazy because for nearly a year now I keep seeing them and they keep reminding me of that incredibly hard-to-get-out-of-my head John Prine tune: While digesting Reader's Digest In the back of a dirty book store, A plastic flag, with gum on the back, Fell out on the floor. Well, I picked it up and I ran outside Slapped on my window shield, And if I could see old Betsy Ross I tell her how good I feel. Chorus: But your flag decal won't get you Into Heaven any more. They're already overcrowded From your dirty little war. Now Jesus don't like killin' No matter what the reason's for, And your flag decal won't get you Into Heaven any more. Well, I went to the bank this morning And the cashier he said to me, "If you join the Christmas club We'll give you ten of them flags for free." Well, I didn't mess around a bit I took her up on what he said. And I stuck them stickers all over my car And one on my wife's forehead. Repeat Chorus: Well, I got my window shield so filled With flags I couldn't see. So, I ran the car upside a curb And right into a tree. By the time they got a doctor down I was already dead. And I'll never understand why the man Standing in the Pearly Gates said... But your flag decal won't get you Into Heaven any more. We're already overcrowded From your dirty little war. Now Jesus don't like killin' No matter what the reason's for, And your flag decal won't get you Into Heaven any more.       (c) John Prine I give up, it's gotta get relegated to sig status. Little girls, like butterflies, need no excuses. (R. Heinlein)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

3.  Haha   by madamimadam       at Fri 6 Sep 7:09pm score of 1     Organizers will display an American flag at the event scheduled on Sproul Plaza and will not prohibit singing patriotic songs such as the "Star Spangled Banner," said UC Berkeley spokesperson Janet Gilmore. You gotta love a place where a spokesperson (spokesPERSON, very PC) has to make it clear that people WILL be allowed to sing patriotic songs, the implication being that this is contrary to expectations. As a current student of Cal, however, I am biased.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

4.  Quick, someone go to lyrics.com.   by MAYORBOB       at Fri 6 Sep 10:21pm score of 1     "Organizers will display an American flag at the event scheduled on Sproul Plaza and will not prohibit singing patriotic songs such as the "Star Spangled Banner," said UC Berkeley spokesperson Janet Gilmore." Or do you think anyone at Berkeley knows the words? Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  They don't know the words of anything...   by Brian Jones       at Sat 7 Sep 4:12am score of 1.5 funny   in reply to comment 4     ...that doesn't start with the phrase "Hey hey, ho ho..." Cheap crass attention-whoring plug goes here.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   11.  Hey hey! Ho ho!   by mad_clown       at Sun 8 Sep 10:02am score of 1   in reply to comment 7     Anyone who doesn't think their way has got to go! Hey hey! Ho ho! Society had become divided into two ideologically hostile camps, and each viewed the other with suspicion. -Thucydides   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   18.  Re: They don't know the words of anything...   by Al Coholic       at Mon 9 Sep 6:31am score of 1   in reply to comment 7     Maybe you could teach them the words to the Horst Wessel Lied then.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   19.  They already know that one, Al...   by Brian Jones       at Mon 9 Sep 7:23am score of 1   in reply to comment 18     ...and have moved on to more Kristallnachty stuff. I did forget the other songs in the idiots' rotation: the ones that start with One, two, three, four... Cheap crass attention-whoring plug goes here.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   21.  Re: Hey hey! Ho ho!   by ExciteableBoy       at Mon 9 Sep 11:13am score of 1   in reply to comment 11     Or this one from Lileks.com: Hey hey ho ho! Your intra-procedural hijacking of the grievance modality structure with its systemic appeal to patriarchal notions of male-defined Logic has got to go! Along with your phallocentric concept of of "meter!"   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   26.  Re: Hey hey! Ho ho!   by mad_clown       at Tue 10 Sep 10:38am score of 1   in reply to comment 21     Haha! +1 Brilliant, man! :) Society had become divided into two ideologically hostile camps, and each viewed the other with suspicion. -Thucydides   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  The Patriot...   by PD       at Fri 6 Sep 10:22pm score of 2 astute     is so kooky that it's outrageously funny. Seriously, these people make Ann Coulter seem like a reasonable human being. As a very recent (last year) graduate of Berkeley I can tell you that I honestly believe most of their circulation comes from "liberal" kids who read it because it makes them laugh (at least, that's why I read it). The ribbon thing, while annoyingly nationalistic, isn't a huge deal to me (although I know that contrary to what Mr. Berdhal says, it will be to several Cal students I know). Much more disturbing is the statement State Assembly Speaker Herb Wesson made in this article that "Billboards reading 'Be a Patriot' will be displayed in more than 60 visible locations statewide." I did a little detective work and found Speaker Wesson's press release. Apparently these billboards are advertisements for a $40 a year special license plate that commemorates the 9/11 terrorist attacks. From the press release: "The California License plate gives every Californian a chance to be a patriot." The implication here is that anybody who doesn't shell out $40 to get an American flag plastered onto their license plate is being un-patriotic. Scary.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

20.  Re: The Patriot...   by jhe       at Mon 9 Sep 8:35am score of 1   in reply to comment 5     The implication here is that anybody who doesn't shell out $40 to get an American flag plastered onto their license plate is being un-patriotic. ... or that $40 bucks and a license plate makes you patriotic. I'm guessing that there is a sacrifice and virtue threshold between jingoism and patriotism -- $40 seems on the low side. "Because a person's a person, no matter how small" -- Theodore Geisel   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   22.  Re: The Patriot...   by lockemike       at Mon 9 Sep 12:11pm score of 1   in reply to comment 5     Gee, and somehow I thought that paying my taxing without complaint was the highest form of patriotism (and one that many conservatives are fairly lacking in). As a Berkeley grad, I'm frankly annoyed by its status as the national lightning-rod for political "news." This isn't a real story. The administration and student government had a disagreement over a detail of the memorial events (which the Daily Cal, flawed but independent, explained rather simply) and the local right-wing rag had a field day with the "implications."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

6.  What a bunch of crap   by iarnuocon       at Fri 6 Sep 11:56pm score of 4 astute     Plastic is in a sorry state when a story ranking 7.5 of 19 gets posted. Why such a low score? My guess is the "counterintuitive" way in which the story is presented. Corroborated? An unusual definition of the word. "The "Star Spangled Banner" is too patriotic, divisive and political, so organizers of UC Berkeley's day-long tribute to the victims and heroes of 9-11 are excluding it." Wrong. "The Sept. 11 Day of Remembrance, sponsored by the Chancellor's office, the student body government and the Graduate Assembly, will also feature student leaders distributing white ribbons, instead of the red, white and blue ones they had originally planned." Wrong. Not only does it appear that the red, white, and blue ones were not the "originally planned" ribbons, but the university itself (bastion of Marxism) has overruled the distribution of white ribbons. "Quindel will be one of two people selecting speakers for short speeches by students during a noontime event on Memorial Glade." Wrong. Turns out the noontime event features an open mic. "Those who aren't selected to speak by Quindel and her undergraduate counterpart, Gabriel, will have an opportunity to speak at an open microphone assembly in the evening." Wrong. A second, two hour open mic session will be held in the afternoon. The Cal Patriot characterizes the focus of the event as an anti-american protest, rather than a memorial service. The Daily Californian and Berdahl's statements reflect merely a fear that the Berkely College Republicans will turn a memorial service into a political conflict Covering his keister? Only if you take the Cal Patriot story at face value. Confirmed their report through several independent sources? It'd be interesting to see what those sources were. At the very least it completely glosses over the official university position. At best the Cal Patriot piece comes off as yellow journalism. How to be a real radical at Berkeley? Be extremely conservative. "Look how different MY views are, everybody!" The Cal Patriot piece filters the university's position through the voice of Quindel, "a self avowed hater of the American Flag, the federal government, and the 'Star Spangled Banner'..." When actual university representatives' positions are taken into account, it becomes apparent that two diametrically opposed campus groups are both trying to hijack a memorial service for political posturing. Sadly, they've succeeded. What a tempest in a teapot. Other shocking news divulged by the Cal Patriot? Berkeley is a hotbed of leftist radicals. Berkeley serves a community of international students as well as americans. Some people don't want to have patriotism crammed down their throats 24/7, much less at a memorial service for the international victims killed in the collapse of the World Trade Center. Amazing. At least the Cal Patriot is living up to its mission statement: Our publication will challenge the atmosphere of "tolerance and openness" that seems to only apply to liberal thought. I don't think it came out quite the way they intended. insanus omnis furere credit ceteros... ecce signum   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  Re: What a bunch of crap...I concur   by WastingMy       at Sat 7 Sep 8:05am score of 1.5 astute   in reply to comment 6     How to be a real radical at Berkeley? Be extremely conservative. "Look how different MY views are, everybody!" IMHO, students at Berkeley portray themselves as spoiled attention-whores with zero real world life experience, dictating how the rest of the country should think. Berkeley students should spend more time learning and less time preaching.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   24.  Re: What a bunch of crap...I concur   by slavdude       at Mon 9 Sep 1:53pm score of 1   in reply to comment 8     Having gone to a college in the 1980s that was a) the "hot" college and b) the Berkeley of the East (i.e., Brown), I can say that a great many college students are just as clueless about the real world as these kids at Berkeley. I also have noticed that most (I didn't say all) outgrow this kind of behavior once they go to work for daddy's company or actually have a life (and sex, too). The great irony is that they appear to have influence on the rest of us because of hysterical media coverage that lends them the same measure of respect that we give their lookalikes on the right. Another thing, and then I'll shut up: the tone of the Cal Patriot reminds me of the silly, kindergarten-like prattlings of other conservative "underdogs" such as Bruce Tinsley. Tomorrow I will be sober, but you will still be ugly.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

9.  stupidity is par for the course sometimes   by 6StringSamurai       at Sat 7 Sep 8:15am score of 2.5 astute     It's a given that some students on the Berkeley campus, whether left or right, will be doing something stupid. Taking this all into account, it seems that both sides would like to use this for their own aims, thus turning the whole memorial into a fucking joke, which is the last thing it should be. With the media already parading the one-year anniversary and such (turning it into another big joke for ratings), this bullshit is stupid. Trying to use the memorial service for either jingoism or extreme anti-Americanism renders the whole service meaningless. As for those who say, "No one should be offended," this is America. If you don't want to be offended, don't walk out the door. On the other hand, the aims to shove jingoism down people's throats is equally disgusting. "I beg to differ, and on the contrary, I agree with every word that you say." - Green Day   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  Jingoistic?   by mad_clown       at Sun 8 Sep 10:18am score of 1.5 brilliant   in reply to comment 9     On the other hand, the aims to shove jingoism down people's throats is equally disgusting. Right, because commemorating (with the national colors) the anniversary of the largest attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor is a blatant act of runaway nationalism. Remind me to get offended when the hispanic residents of Southern California celebrate Mexican Independence Day. Oh, and be sure that I'll whine about the next Canadian or Englishman I see commemorating the Somme. Such disgusting displays of jingoistic nationalism are patently offensive to me, etc., ad nauseam. Quindel, a self avowed hater of the American Flag, the federal government, and the "Star Spangled Banner... I have to wonder about people like this too. For an "avowed hater" of the federal government, I'm sure she has a fit every time her student loan money gets decreased. Seriously... what a pathetic hypocrite. "I HATE AMERIKKKA AND THE GOVERNMENT.... but I'm sure glad I'm getting a good education at a prestigious public university!" Society had become divided into two ideologically hostile camps, and each viewed the other with suspicion. -Thucydides   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   13.  Re: Jingoistic?   by 6StringSamurai       at Sun 8 Sep 10:45am score of 1   in reply to comment 12     Sorry, I get the feeling that the Patriot and the College Republicans want to turn the whole thing into a political rally. Red, white, and blue ribbons, flags, and such are fine, but I think there's more to this, especially since it seems the Patriot likes to exaggerate. "I beg to differ, and on the contrary, I agree with every word that you say." - Green Day   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   16.  Re: Jingoistic?   by snarkism       at Sun 8 Sep 9:50pm score of 1   in reply to comment 12     Right, because commemorating (with the national colors) the anniversary of the largest attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor is a blatant act of runaway nationalism. That is precisely NOT what 6String said. You might want to get some reading comprehension, because the post was how it was trying to be hijacked by both sides - rather than being a true memorial. With your selective reading, you are just as guilty of hijacking the cause for conservative propaganda, as many are for hijacking it for anti-American propaganda. This is what the Cal patriot is doing - misrepresenting the issue, and trying to turn it into a left/right flamewar, rather than a remembrance service. snarkism That's using your ass.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

10.  Whapp!   by nemski       at Sat 7 Sep 10:12am score of 0.5 incoherent     The sound of me bitch slapping the entire left-wing Berkely student body. Plastic Book Club's Nov. Selection: Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

14.  Ow.   by bray       at Sun 8 Sep 12:28pm score of 1.5   in reply to comment 10     That hurt. What exactly did I do to deserve that?   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   23.  Re: Ow.   by Ajax       at Mon 9 Sep 12:47pm score of 1   in reply to comment 14     That hurt. What exactly did I do to deserve that? "...one count of being an accessory to being a bear." "Coca-ColaŽ and ArmageddonŽ / We like it, like it, yes we do!" -- Clutch.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

17.  A Future FOX News/Washington Times Editor   by Al Coholic       at Mon 9 Sep 6:21am score of 1.5 astute     "It's now been corroborated and updated by the main student newspaper: Cal-Berkeley chancellor Robert Berdahl has overruled students who wished to prohibit many patriotic displays this coming September 11." What the fuck? The link to the Daily Cal says nothing like that. Where in the Daily Cal article does it say that students (or any student) wished to prohibit patriotic displays (or any patriotic display) at the Sept. 11 commemorations? It says that some student leaders wanted to distribute white ribbons (rather than r/w/b), in light of the fact that not all the victims at the WTC were Americans. Quindel said the decision was motivated so as not to exclude anyone, not that the r/w/b ribbons would offend anyone. But nowhere does the Daily Cal say that students wanted to prohibit patriotic displays at the Sept. 11 events. One student said he "does not support" a U.S. flag at the memorial. He did not say he wanted to prohibit anyone else's patriotic display. Here's a thought for all the wingnuts: Not handing out free r/w/b ribbons =/= censorship, anti-patriotism or oppression. Quit squalling like a bunch of diaper-wearing Sean Hannity wannabes and buy your own ribbons, you cheap bastards.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]