Elephants In Donkeys' Clothes: GOPs Play Dems To Sway Primaries
	found on: Yahoo News written by Ernest333, edited by Nick (Plastic) [ read unedited ] posted Thu 23 May 6:21pm
		"The Michigan Republican Party has allegedly taken to running 'sleeper agents' in the upcoming Michigan Democratic primary." writes Ernest333. "These are Republicans who register and present themselves as Democrats to get on the ballot, apparently in order to manipulate the outcome of Democratic primaries. If that's not twisted enough, it even appears that the Republicans registered an unwitting 18 year-old as one of their 'double agent' candidates." In a sense, this is nothing new: independent voters undoubtedly contributed to John McCain's success in 'open' Republican primaries in 2000; and grassroots Republicans appear to be going against Bush's wishes in choosing their own primary candidates. But does registering Republicans to play at being Democrats count as electoral fraud?

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show almost all: 19 commentsbest: 12 comments by oldest first (ignore threads) newest first highest scores first oldest first newest first (ignore threads)

1.  Ha ha   by lacinycmai       at Thu 23 May 6:33pm score of 1 brilliant     If Bush's presidency doesn't count as electoral fraud, nothing else ever will. mYe sgiNtaURe   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

2.  Republicrat has a new meaning today   by Scone Eater       at Thu 23 May 6:38pm score of 1   in reply to comment 1     I wonder how long this has been going on.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

3.  Excellent story...   by funchords       at Thu 23 May 6:50pm score of 2 astute     Excellent story Ernest333 ... and damning. The Michigan Democrats have this story on the front of their web page. I've voted the straight Republican ticket in past elections, but could not reconcile my libertarianism with the GOP's desire to interfere in the bedroom. So now I vote candidates and not parties. But if this turns out to be true -- and the evidence is pretty damning -- I just might "disqualify" Republicans from my vote for a few elections. - -Born Free! (Except for the $15 co-payment.)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

4.  30 years later - haven't the Republicans learned?   by Henry Fnord       at Thu 23 May 6:53pm score of 3 astute     Donald Segretti - 1972 Sad how history repeats itself. BTW, to see where Segretti is now, click here. "This comment has been brought to you by a grant from the Fnord Foundation, and viewers like you."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

5.  Re: 30 years later - haven't the Republicans learn   by funchords       at Thu 23 May 7:06pm score of 3 informative   in reply to comment 4     a www.washingtonpost.com link I didn't know who that was, so I looked it up. - -Born Free! (Except for the $15 co-payment.)   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

6.  Nothing new   by M. Mosher       at Thu 23 May 7:45pm score of 2 informative     My across-the-street-neighbors moved to the Traverse City area two years ago (that's in the northern part of the lower peninsula of Michigan). My wife and I visited them in their new house and went with them to a party thrown by their new next-door neighbor. That area has a lot of retired people and they vote predominantly Republican but I met a woman at this party who was running for some local office. She was running as a Republican even though she openly admitted that she was a Democrat through and through. She said that Democrats don't win elections so she had no choice. She didn't try to hide it from anyone at the party but I can't imagine she campaigned the same way. Perhaps she thought that the crowd was sufficiently sympathetic that she could be truthful with us, but I found it a bit alarming that anyone would do something like that and also that the local Republican party would allow it. I found out later that she won the election. It was not an important office - school board or city council. I was always convinced that statewide offices get too much scrutiny for it to be common practice but this new story has a similar ring to it. I think the same tricks are used over and over again by both parties so it's futile to act surprised.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

12.  Re: Nothing new   by zanzibar       at Fri 24 May 5:39am score of 2 astute   in reply to comment 6     but I found it a bit alarming that anyone would do something like that and also that the local Republican party would allow it ... It was not an important office - school board or city council This isn't uncommon, and it's not a really big deal. Oftentimes, the local parties are happy just to have somebody on the ballot for a given position, so they can look good-- it's not like they care about that much about the ideological purity of the local sheriff, dogcatcher or council-member. For an extreme example, look at New York. The Republicans successfully ran a mayoral candidate who is essentially a liberal democrat. But they had nobody else good to run, and the end result is that newspapers write articles about the success of the Republican movement in New York. I suppose it didn't hurt that the guy financed his own campaign, but that's just icing.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

7.  I'm not sure that it's electoral fraud.   by MAYORBOB       at Thu 23 May 8:08pm score of 2 astute     But it sure is fucking stupid. What, did they really think that nobody would notice? Did they think that telling someone that he or she is going to run as a Republican and then have them find out they are a Democrat might not have repercussions? The answer to the above two questions is undoubtedly yes, as Party politics keep getting dirtier and dirtier. Lest anyone think that dirty politics is something the Republicans reserve for the Democrats, let me point them in the direction of Pennsylvania. Ed Rendell just won the Pennsylvania primary election to become the Democratic candidate for governor. He will be the first politician from Philly to become Governor since 1914 (and he will win the general election -- trust me). The primary contest was marked by a seemingly endless series of fairly dishonest campaign ads commissioned by the Bob Casey Jr. camp (he is the son of the former governor Bob Casey Sr.). Only in this case, the good guy ended up winning. Tending to final details.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

19.  Re: I'm not sure that it's electoral fraud.   by Anaximander       at Sat 25 May 11:07am score of 1   in reply to comment 7     The primary contest was marked by a seemingly endless series As a PA resident who only gets one TV channel, I'm intensely relieved that I no longer have to watch back-to-back "he's lying" "no, he's lying" "no, him" commercials during every break. That said, I don't think Rendell came out of the mud-slinging match looking all that good.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

8.  Just the Opposite In Washington State   by DebateUSA com       at Thu 23 May 8:32pm score of 4 informative     Fascinating. We have had exactly the opposite affiliation problem in this state for years, Dems running as Republicans, or thanks to our completely messed up "Open" Primary system ahve had Deomcrats attemtp and in some well documented cases succeed quite handily at getting their preferred candidate on the ballot so that their candidate would have an easy victory. In Washington State, our Primaries are open to any registered voter of any party and no individual must claim association with a party to participate. The process is used to determine which candidates will run for office when there are more than two canidates from the same party running for the same position. The Dems, the Reps, AND the Libs have all protested our system, (the last of its kind in the nation) as a blatant sham -- and it is -- that strips the political parties -- public organizations enodwed to establish their chosen candidates for office -- of their primary function (to identify and place like-minded individuals into positions of public service). A similar case in California, which set precident in case stated that the parties did in fact have the authority to determine their candidates and that open primaries were a viloation of their freedom of association rights. Many assumed that this was the end of the story and that it was just a formality in this state to remedy the situation and come into compliance with the precident. But the courts had other things in mind and ruled that the open primaries would continue. And this happened not once in court, but twice! This matter is undoubted headed to the Supreme Court, where it would be hoped that the outcome is predictable and in favor of the parties. They should have the right to identify and place on the ballot those people, and ONLY those people they wish to certify as members of their respective parties, whatever that may be, so that cases such as this one, can be dealt with appropriately. "It is not by whining that one accomplishes the job of Leader" - Napoleon   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

13.  Re: Just the Opposite In Washington State   by zanzibar       at Fri 24 May 5:47am score of 2 clever   in reply to comment 8     They should have the right to identify and place on the ballot those people, and ONLY those people they wish to certify as members of their respective parties I'm all for this. Just as long as NO TAXPAYER FUNDS are used to pay for these primaries, wouldn't you say? On the other hand, as long as one cent of my taxes is going to fund the parties' ability to "identify and place on the ballot" their kind, I think I'd like my vote, thank you very much.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]   17.  Re: Just the Opposite In Washington State   by DebateUSA com       at Fri 24 May 9:46am score of 1   in reply to comment 13     Absolutely! This is the "primary" :) reason that the parties want to have the ability to nominate their own candidates at caucus' and conventions. I agree 110%! NO TAX DOLLARS should be used to aide political organizations in identifying and placing their candidates on the ballot. Now if we could just get the courts to stop legislating, we might actually be able to accomplish something... "It is not by whining that one accomplishes the job of Leader" - Napoleon   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

9.  Republicans can pretend to be Democrats   by mUrielw       at Thu 23 May 8:32pm score of 2 irrelevant     all they want, for what I care.       What I truly despise is this Democrats-pretending-to-be-Republicans, "New Democrat" b.s. Blame it on Bill to start with, but it's gotten much worse since 9/11 happened and Were Supposed To Preserve National Unity.       And all the democrats (or most of them) roll over! I mean, Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket! Either grow some balls/ovaries/conviction or quit the act and run as a Republican next year, Senator!       (-1 Obnoxious mode off) Language God denies 4-cube Truth. You were educated stupid. - Gene Ray "This young man will come to understand that aging is about humilation prevention and management." - Rubberstamp   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

10.  Party system is having a party   by luggage       at Fri 24 May 1:21am score of 2 astute     Why do people enter politics? I would imagine it is because they feel that they have good ideas and want to help their fellow man (gender non-specific). That might sound cheesy but consider the alternative, that they're purely in it for the money, power and privilege and want to compete against a few hundred thousand others for a few hundred positions. And then what happens? They find that the system is geared towards parties. That an independent has to be very wealthy or fantastically charismatic (and probably both) to win election. All they can aim for is to attach themselves to a party that best mimics their own principles and aims. Is it any surprise that people learn to play the game in the vain hope that they can revert to acting in accordance with their beliefs and original intentions when they are in office? What they don't realise is the power of the system. Those parties are backed by a long line of incumbents and bureaucrats. They know what people are like and watch them carefully (in the UK the whips office of each party will keep an eye on individual members voting and attendance etc). To return personal honesty to politics I think it might be necessary to at a minimum a) make people run as independents b) institute a non-biased bureaucracy (civil service) to give the necessary day to day support. Electoral fraud? No. They're not being elected under false pretenses. You're meant to vote for the person remember; for their values, intentions, plans etc that most closely match what you would like to see done. If they run on a different party's ticket but still advertise their true beliefs.....then it should be fine. If not, well it would be horribly hard to prove and sue. This camouflage by the republicans should not even come as a surprise to people. Parties play the game even better than individuals.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

11.  Primaries aren't "real" elections   by randombozo       at Fri 24 May 3:35am score of 3 informative     Primaries are nothing more than internal party elections run at taxpayer cost. It's just one of the many ways the entrenched Democrat and Republican parties abuse the system. If the X party wants to run an Official candidate, they should select their candidate on their own using their own money. As an aside, sometimes candidates will run as both Democrat and Republican simultaniously. Last year's school board candidates were on the ballot in both columns. Make a party-line vote for either side and it's the same people. Vote for randombozo in 2002. I pledge to do lots of stupid things for y'all to comment on.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

14.  Combine this with   by JC65       at Fri 24 May 8:02am score of 1 irrelevant     Virginia Republicans illegally (allegedly) eavesdropping on phone conversations between Democrats, Florida, Tennessee and Missouri Republicans (allegedly) violating the voting rights act, and Minnesota Republicans conductiong illegal email comapigns, you start to get the feeling that the Republicans really are the Really Rottens from Scooby's All Star Laff-A-Lympics.   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

15.  Fraud.   by BatGuano       at Fri 24 May 8:34am score of 1     This just might be, very well could be, likely is, fraud. Read the stories. Notary publics who also just happen to be Republican party staff notarize documents claiming that these candidates are Democrats running for office. In what I've read, there's no proof that they are Democrats, ever voted Democrat, ever registered as Democrat. That's fraud. They very cleverly got people with no political background (like an 18 year-old kid) to go in on this. In other cases these people have said they just got into politics, just became Democrats, etc. As a Michigan resident, I've been seeing this story all week on the local news. It's just a sign that Republicans are desperate here. VP-wannabee Gov. Engler lost the state to McCain, and the lost the state to Gore. Senator Spence fled to become Energy Sec. Now the state Republican party is soiling itself with this clumsy rat-fuck tactic, increasing the stench of fear and defeat. Say Yes! to Michigan, Yes There Really Is A Kalamazoo, over and out. your radio friend, Bat Guano   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

16.  Re: Fraud.   by Henry Fnord       at Fri 24 May 9:36am score of 1   in reply to comment 15     It's just a sign that Republicans are desperate here. VP-wannabee Gov. Engler lost the state to McCain, and the lost the state to Gore. Senator Spence fled to become Energy Sec. Now the state Republican party is soiling itself with this clumsy rat-fuck tactic, increasing the stench of fear and defeat. But isn't the true measure of a man how he performs under stress? "This comment has been brought to you by a grant from the Fnord Foundation, and viewers like you."   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]

18.  Watergate just past my front gate.   by BatGuano       at Fri 24 May 1:28pm score of 2 informative     Here's more stinky smells from Michigan, from yesterday's Kalamazoo Gazette: Randall Smith, a 42-year-old car mechanic, ha s never had an interest in politics, but as a favor to a friend he agreed to run for the Michigan Senate as a Democratic candidate against former state Rep. Ed LaForge. "I was called first, and then I met with them," said Smith, a Comstock Township reside nt. "It was a friend to begin with, saying 'Would you do us a favor and run for senator? We're putting your name on the ballot. That's all we're doing.' " "He never really did explain it to me fully what I would be doing." Smith said it's apparent to hi m now he is pawn in political scheme engineered by Republicans to hurt Democratic candidates in the Michigan primary. He won't say who asked him to run, but he's angry at the people who are now "hanging (him) out to dry" and bewildered by accusations f rom Democrats that he is guilty of election fraud.... Smith said he wrote a $100 check to cover the filing fee. Asked if he was reimbursed for the money, he said, "I don't want to get into the other part of it." "Other part of it"??? Like, what was in it for Smith? What state do I live in, Louisiana?!? your radio friend, Bat Guano   [ ...reply just to this | comment on the story... | next new ]