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|  | | | | Fat Bottomed Girls Apparently Do Not Make The Rockin' World Go Round | | | | | found on The Age
written by Brian Jones, edited by Colin (Plastic) [ read unedited ]
posted Fri 20 Dec 7:08am | | | | |
 | "To hear it put by the authors of a new British Medical Journal study on men's preferences in female body types, men are decidedly not gravitating toward the curvy sort of woman any more, and it's more angular and androgynous women of the Eva Herzigova type that are most desired," Brian Jones writes. "Unusual, since the study's authors base their findings on a diligent examination of every Playboy since 1953 -- you in the back, stop that snickering, this is an academic discussion!" (Note: all links work safe.)
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[ more plastic... ] |
| | | | | | | 1. wrong comparison... | | | | by oysterboysal |  | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:14am | score of 3 astute | | | | | | |
Maybe they should compare the women in women's magazines to the women in men's magazines and see the difference. To my eye, the women in Fashion rags are much thinner than the women in Maxim and Playboy.
And how do they explain J.Lo? Do they think men like her acting talents?
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| | | | | | 2. Re: wrong comparison... | | | | by halfwit |  | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:28am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 1 | | | | | |
J. Lo is definitely pleasing to the eye... but her acting talents aren't too bad either. I'm not qualified to judge whether she's top notch, but even I can tell she was a hundred times better in this than Madonna was in this. I didn't particularly like either film, but J. Lo can definitely act circles around Madonna.
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| | | | | 54. Re: wrong comparison... | | | | by lost aussie | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:06am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 2 | | | | | |
Who are we kidding? Fran "The Nanny" Drescher could out act the pair of them:))
J-Lo would have been another aspiring nobody if she hadn't glommed onto Sean Combs for so long, and Madonna's only gotten where she has through hard work and trading "Punani" for people's willingness to remix and re-tread her music and videos. A pox on both their un-talents.
Alright, you got me - J-Lo has the best bum of the two.
Do nothing and become an accomplice like everyone else.
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| | | | | 124. Re: wrong comparison... | | | | by semonyenko | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 4:13pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 1 | | | | | |
And how do they explain J.Lo? Do they think men like her acting talents?
That depends on how she's acting, I guess. Though I'd like the chance to judge her talents myself.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't do or teach become school adminstrators.
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| | | | | | 3. Playboys | | | | by dagnabbitt | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:34am | score of 1.5 clever | | | | | | |
The study was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, of course, and proves nothing, as the researchers themselves note. Less curvy? Well, of course Marilyn has a different sort of body type from the girls of today's centerfolds, but the study also notes that the weight of the centerfolds remain about constant. Interesting that the study didn't draw the conclusion that men like taller women, since if they're less curvy, yet the same weight, that's what I would assume. Who says that Playboy is the cuttingedge of nudity anyway?
As for tendencies toward androgyny, well, you can apply that theory the to the faces of some of the women featured, but not to their bodies. All centerfolds from the 50's are clearly feminine for one reason: THEY'RE NAKED! I haven't noticed any hermaphrodites, letely.
I find these truths to be self-evident.
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| | | | | | 125. Height, weight and photography | | | | by zanzibar | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 4:16pm | score of 1.5 interesting | | in reply to comment 3 | | | | | |
the study also notes that the weight of the centerfolds remain about constant. Interesting that the study didn't draw the conclusion that men like taller women, since if they're less curvy, yet the same weight, that's what I would assume.
My understanding of the trend toward tall women in print was that taller women tend to look skinnier than shorter women in the camera's eye. At least, assuming you're comparing women who have roughly the same body-fat, etc.
For instance, many centerfolds and supermodels are really outrageously tall. If you met them on the street you'd be surprised, because that isn't properly conveyed by the camera-- which, because of the scale and two-dimensionality, doesn't give proper perspective.
In other words, it's basically a photographer's trick for making women look skinnier than they are. Just take a very tall woman of average thickness and shrink her down on paper 'til she looks to be of average height, suddenly you've got an extremely skinny-looking woman. It doesn't indicate that men prefer their women heavy any more than, say, the shellacking of food in advertising indicates that customers enjoy the taste of varnish.
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| | | | | | 4. This is a study of Playboy editors preferences... | | | | by CoFenchurch |  | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:37am | score of 2.5 astute | | | | | | |
not men in general. While there is most likely some overlap, it's not the same thing. Ok, I'm a heterosexual woman, but I would suspect that in real life, most men prefer women who are not fat, but a lot heavier than a typical modern Playboy model. Ya know... normal.
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| | | | | | 34. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by eidilon | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:36am | score of 1.5 compelling | | in reply to comment 4 | | | | | |
In my personal experience very few men actively prefer women who are "a lot heavier than a typical Playboy model". The average Playmate is 22 years old, 5'6" tall, and weighs 116 pounds. I've met lots of men who, when presented with a Playboy magazine make disparaging remarks about the women within -- "they're too skinny" or what have you. Without exception those same men lock eyes on and swivel their heads when a woman of the same height and weight walks by on the street.
It has been my experience that many men lie to themselves, their friends, and (especially) the women in their lives about the kind of women they find attractive.
However, in real life dating situations most men realize they have to settle for something less than perfection -- in all aspects, physical, mental, whatever. Men date "normal" because a) that's what most women are and b) from time to time we're known to include factors other than appearance in the consideration. (Hard as that may be to believe.)
None of which, however, is to say that most men don't PREFER women who have the build of Playmates. What it does mean is that attraction is based on many things and the presence of reciprocal attraction often outweighs physical imperfections.
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| | | | | 68. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by Anonymous Idiot | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 11:04am | score of 1.5 astute | | in reply to comment 34 | | | | | |
"I've met lots of men who, when presented with a Playboy magazine make disparaging remarks about the women within -- "they're too skinny" or what have you. Without exception those same men lock eyes on and swivel their heads when a woman of the same height and weight walks by on the street."
Speaking as a fully qualified man (credentials upon request) I can say without reservation that this is a misperception of motive. Men will turn their heads to watch anything remotely attractive and female walk by, no matter what the variation in attributes. The two qualities mentioned in the previous sentence are in that order for a reason - many's the time I've had a male friend begin to comment on an approaching person's attractiveness only to find out, as the subject gets closer, that the long hair and tight jeans are in fact gracing a man.
"None of which, however, is to say that most men don't PREFER women who have the build of Playmates."
I would contend, based on what I know of my friends' and my preferences, that "most" is not the correct word. Some do and some don't. Perhaps it's true that most men will admit attraction to Playboy types before they admit their attraction to big butts, women with crewcuts, or other characteristics not considered the current "standard." Nobody wants to be perceived in social circles as the odd one out - a trait, I might add, shared equally by men and women.
"It has been my experience that many men lie to themselves, their friends, and (especially) the women in their lives about the kind of women they find attractive."
I agree that they may lie to their friends and their significant others (although even broaching the subject of preferred female traits with one's girlfriend/wife is usually an avenue fraught with danger). They do not, for the most part, fool themselves. As many a snoop can tell you, porn stashes never lie.
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| | | | | 81. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by CoFenchurch | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:09pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 34 | | | | | |
In my personal experience, my first husband left me, basically because I wasn't fat Enough for his tastes. I'm 5'3", and at the time I was around 245 pounds. He met a co-worker who was a more exact replication of his particular fetish (I'm Inverted Triangle shaped, with broad shoulders, large chest and proportionately smaller hips. Apparently, this did not ring his bell as much as someone who was extremely bottom heavy as well as much heavier overall.) After he met this person, all of a sudden I could do nothing right, and before long he had left. He says he didn't start dating her until after he had left me, but I believe that about as far as I could comfortably spit a rat. I met her once when we had to sign some papers for the divorce, and honestly, I was surprised she could walk. That's only one man, okay... but there are a lot like him. It's kind of creepy, really. Is it really any better to be liked solely because of your fat than it is to be hated for it? I find it a lot healthier when men say they like a range of women's body types. The extreme specificity of some men, whether it's for the very fat or the very thin, just kinda icks me. I count myself fourtunate that my current husband seems to like a range of women, from thin to heavy. Since I just had a gastric bypass, I'm going to be a range of body types all by myself before long. I've dropped thirteen pounds (from 239) in nine days. Unfortunately, it's not all that noticeable, as I still have post surgery swelling.
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| | | | | 117. Re: Senseless restrictions | | | | by graikor | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 3:10pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 68 | | | | | |
Perhaps it's true that most men will admit attraction to Playboy types before they admit their attraction to big butts, women with crewcuts, or other characteristics not considered the current "standard." Nobody wants to be perceived in social circles as the odd one out - a trait, I might add, shared equally by men and women.
I'll agree with that. As a man with a taste toward curvier women -- OK, fine, I've been fairly described as a "chubby chaser", can we get back to the point? -- I often feel uncomfortable revealing that sort of attraction among other men. It's usually not a problem for me around women, though.
They do not, for the most part, fool themselves. As many a snoop can tell you, porn stashes never lie.
Very true!
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| | | | | 118. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by maml | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 3:12pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 81 | | | | | |
Ag, that's some major surgery there CoFenchurch. I hope the recovery has gone alright. I've heard some horror stories.
It's not just men who have body type fixations, though I do think it's more common with men.
I've blocked AI. I'm happier now.
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| | | | | 132. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by kira | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 5:47pm | score of 1.5 compelling | | in reply to comment 68 | | | | | |
The two qualities mentioned in the previous sentence are in that order for a reason - many's the time I've had a male friend begin to comment on an approaching person's attractiveness only to find out, as the subject gets closer, that the long hair and tight jeans are in fact gracing a man.
Just the fact that you'd be attracted to a woman who is built like a man says something about the types of women you're attracted to. Whenever I've seen this happen, the men tend to be tall and quite thin, and have no hips or breasts (for obvious reasons). This is not what a "normal" woman looks like. We have curves...unless we're starved supermodels, which most of us are not.
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| | | | | 145. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by Chasuk | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 2:39am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 132 | | | | | |
I find this quite interesting, especially as a bisexual male. Oddly, I prefer effeminate men, and slightly masculine, or at least androgynous, women. specifically, bi-femme/lez women, with no girly-girl aspects, and who puts up with shit from no one. Stranger still (to everyone but me), I prefer men near-hairless, and I prefer that women don't shave at all.
It really grosses me when when a woman shaves her pubes. That's why I can't enjoy most porn; I want to enjoy women as they look naturally (as long as that look is "tall and quite thin, and hav[ing] no hips or breasts"), and shaving ruins that.
Actually, some hips and breasts are okay, just not overly curvy.
I'm quite a hairy guy, and I don't shave because 1.) I'm lazy, and 2.) I prefer to be appreciated for the way I am. However, I am repulsed by men with hairy shoulders or backs, and I really don't even like facial hair (it is a turn-off feature), though I am bearded myself.
Perhaps the strangest thing about my own orientation is that I don't generally like men at all (with exceptions), and I've almost never liked a straight man (I am talking about in a friendship sense - intellectually we usually don't connect). This has been true since I was a very little boy. I've never enjoyed being male, and have always wished that I'd been born a woman. Still, I wouldn't undergo the chop, as genitalia isn't that important (I don't consider myself a man or a woman, specifically, regardless of my plumbing. I am mentally genderless.); having a penis can be convenient, at least for masturbation and pee-ing standing up. It's just the cool/tough/machismo bullshit that I detest. If men lacked testosterone, we'd be okay.
Gender and attraction questons are always fascinating to me, I suppose because my own gender/attraction map is so skewed.
Does anyone else have an atypical gender map that they will confess?
Neopets - the best free game on the Internet.
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| | | | | 156. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by aeschenkarnos | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 11:32pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 81 | | | | | |
CoFenchurch: Is it really any better to be liked solely because of your fat than it is to be hated for it?
Yes, I think it is generally better to be liked than hated, whatever the reason :). But the problem here is 'solely'. If your ex-husband only wanted you because of your body, and couldn't care less about your personality, interests, your desires, and all the other non-physical things that make or break a relationship, it's no wonder it didn't work out. You're better off without each other anyway because, to be quite frank about it, he and his new lover may be a lot more emotionally compatible than he and you were, and this doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you, her, or him. Although there might be :).
There's nothing morally wrong with only being attracted to a specific body type, or gender, or subset thereof. Practically speaking in my experience it's a pain, because there are plenty of people I would be quite happy with if only I found them physically attractive, but because I don't find them physically attractive, there's no point trying for any kind of physical relationship with them. The best place for people you like but aren't physically attracted to is as friends.
Not meaning to get all Dr Ruth-ish, but your lover must be a sex object to you, and you to them, to have a satisfactory sex life. What you find attractive isn't a matter of choice. You can't 'steel yourself' to find someone attractive, although almost all women and most men can pretend they do for long enough to have sex with them, if only by fantasizing about somebody else, I wouldn't call this a healthy basis for a relationship. So it is better to be honest, and say "I'm not physically attracted to you, you're not my type" rather than leading a person on. If you actually like each other, be friends. You can't have too many friends. :)
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| | | | | 158. Re: This is a study of Playboy editors | | | | by CoFenchurch | | | | at Sun 22 Dec 12:07am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 118 | | | | | |
Recovery is going great. It was a "textbook" surgery according to my doctor, and other than a nasty and incompetent radiology tech who apparently had something against Gastric Bypass patients, my doctor's patients, people with Dutch last names, or SOMETHING, it's all gone very well. Well, except for the day I ate some grits that didn't agree with me.
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| | | | | | 5. Gee, thanks science | | | | by srose | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:47am | score of 1.5 compelling | | | | | | |
For telling me what type of woman I should be lusting after. I wouldn't have known otherwise.
Might as well add my voice to the chorus: "Not always!" If that's the case, explain to me why I watch "Less than Perfect"? hint: It isn't for the comedy stylings of Andy Dick. :-)
If anyone wants me, I'll be in the angrydome!
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| | | | | | 10. Re: Gee, thanks science | | | | by HerbieTheElf | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 8:14am | score of 2 compelling | | in reply to comment 5 | | | | | |
A double Amen to that, srose. Sara Rue earns more double-takes from me than most women on the Victoria's Secret CBS special. But I still find myself making the "weight-ist" comment - sometimes aloud, sometimes to myself - that Sara Rue "is pretty damn hot, especially considering her size."
She's just a bigger girl. But she's also proof that such a fact, in and of itself, does not stand in the way of being attractive.
"You never ask questions when God's on your side." -- Bob Dylan
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| | | | | 21. Re: Gee, thanks science | | | | by srose | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:08am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 13 | | | | | |
She's not - at least in relation to the rest of the US. In relation to the rest of sitcom and Hollywood though, she's "big". I won't give a size, since I can't do that by looking (and women's sizes confuse me).
Plus she has a nice face and reddish hair.
If anyone wants me, I'll be in the angrydome!
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| | | | | 51. Re: Gee, thanks science | | | | by Genady | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:02am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 47 | | | | | |
Double Plus Agree! By most standards Gillian Anderson should have been TV Ugly. Then again, I've already shown my true colors when it comes to Geek Grrls, so my bias may be deviant. (Gillian with a pony tail and glasses.... ::twitch:: ::drool::)
-- Yeah, well, that's like, just your opinion man.
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| | | | | | 6. Causation and Correlation | | | | by Nephthys | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:47am | score of 2 succinct | | | | | | |
Due to environmental and health factors women are thinner now than in the past. Diet and exercise are slimming women and men across the board in 1st world nations. People are attracted to those who take care of themselves. A toned body not only shows that the person cares about how they look, but it might also imply that they have the financial means to maintain a healthy lifestyle.
The human body is always changing in reactions to its surroundings. People are generally taller than they were 100 years ago.
Have men's tastes changed? Yes, but as a reaction to the change in women's body types.
Cake or Death? Cake, please.
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| | | | | | 7. Re: Causation and Correlation | | | | by panpan23 | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:56am | score of 1.5 nuanced | | in reply to comment 6 | | | | | |
Due to environmental and health factors women are thinner now than in the past. Diet and exercise are slimming women and men across the board in 1st world nations.
Well, at least that's what we'd like to believe. Of course, with all the class-action suits against fast food companies and skyrocketing obesity rates, I tend to think the contrary.
By the way ... love the Queen reference in the headline to this one. Best. Headline. Ever.
I TOLD YOU NO WIRE HANGERS, EVER!!!
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| | | | | 73. Re: Causation and Correlation | | | | by Nephthys | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 11:16am | score of 2.5 scholarly | | in reply to comment 7 | | | | | |
Ok, now that I have had my coffee let me cite some other studies about the evolution of body type and desirability:
One study showed the average women's dress size has decreased in the last 50 years. Marilyn Monroe, the first Playboy Bunny, was a size 14. The current Bunnies are probably size 6.
From Sex Roles: A Journal of Research from March, 1999
Study of secular changes in standards of bodily attractiveness of women depicted in American fashion magazines has revealed that a more slender standard is admired when women are entering professions in large numbers (Silverstein, et al., 1986). This is largely responsible for outbreaks of eating disorders (Barber, 1998a). The fundamental reason is that slender, noncurvaceous women are perceived as being more professionally competent. Experiments in which bodily curvaceousness was exaggerated, whether by having models pad their bras, or by using line drawings, have revealed a stereotype according to which curvaceous women are seen as sexually attractive but professionally incompetent (Barber, in press; Kleinke, & Staneski, 1980). The sexual attractiveness of curvaceous women reflects their reproductive value (expected future number of offspring, which is affected by youth and fertility) and superior biological fitness as reflected in resistance to major categories of illness from psychopathology to cancer and heart disease. All of these correlates of having a narrow waist relative to hips are attributable to a low ratio of testosterone to estrogen (Singh, 1993).
It makes sense that during periods when women are entering the work force in large numbers (as happened in the 1920's) and during the past four decades, they should want to seem slender and professionally competent and that this should be reflected in their magazines. Conversely, when women abandon careers in favor of marriage, as happened in the 1950's, the standard reverts to bodily curvaceousness (Barber, 1998b; Silverstein, et al. 1986). In summary, a slender standard occurs when job opportunities for women are good or marriage prospects are bleak whereas a more curvaceous ideal is found when marriage prospects are good or when job prospects are bleak. Cross-culturally a similar pattern has been observed since in societies in which women have more economic and political power, a more slender ideal obtains (Anderson, Crawford, Nadeau, and Lindberg, 1992).
What is noticeably lacking in the study cited in the writeup is WHY tastes and shapes are changing. I am merely saying in my previous post and this, that men's tastes are not changing and women are shaping their bodies to reflect this. What is happening is that women's bodies are changing and men's tastes are following. WHY their bodies are changing is interesting in and of itself.
Cake or Death? Cake, please.
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| | | | | 76. Re: Causation and Correlation | | | | by indiaink | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 11:46am | score of 1.5 compelling | | in reply to comment 73 | | | | | |
Your reference does not show that the average woman's body type has changed but rather that magazine publishers have be moving more toward depicting thinner women. What appears in the magazines may have very little to do with the average woman.
You stated "One study showed the average women's dress size has decreased in the last 50 years."
If you have the information on that study I would find that interesting but your next statement has to do with Marilyn Monroe and current Playboy bunnies which are certainly not representative of the average woman.
"Warning: Please exercise caution- mask and chest plate are not protective; cape does not enable wearer to fly."
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| | | | | 91. Re: Causation and Correlation | | | | by Mad Ogger | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:39pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 73 | | | | | |
I think the same X factor of social change is changing women's bodies and men's preferences in the same direction. Women are increasingly going to college and working at high-status jobs, so they increasingly maintain athletic bodies. On the other hand, since the 50s, men are decreasingly looking for a sexy housewife and increasingly looking for an attractive professional woman.
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| | | | | 109. Re: Causation and Correlation | | | | by Ozymandias | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 2:23pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 73 | | | | | |
Also lacking is whether a size 6 today is the same size as a size 6 50 years ago. I seem to remember reading somewhere that this is not true. I thought it was a straightdope article, but I could not find it in their archive, or anywhere else online.
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| | | | | 123. Bingo Bango. | | | | by byrne | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 3:50pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 109 | | | | | |
A size 14 then is more like a 10 or a 12 now. The Great Size Shift is a particular pain in the ass because things like bathing suits and wedding dresses -- both of them anxiety-inducing purchases to begin with -- are often on the old sizing system. Just the thing to counteract wedding- or beach-related stress: an outfit two apparent sizes bigger than you're used to wearing.
Here's the dope from Snopes on Marilyn's dress size.
what if grasshoppers had machineguns? I'll tell you what: the birds wouldn't fuck with them. - zyxwvutsr
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| | | | | 130. Girdles | | | | by SVGD | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 4:59pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 109 | | | | | |
People also tend to forget that even Marilyn had some help getting into her clothes. Women today don't wear foundation garments to anything like the extent they did in the fifties. A good girdle can get you down two or even three dress sizes.
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| | | | | 11. Re: Causation and Correlation | | | | by Genady | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 8:27am | score of 1.5 funny | | in reply to comment 6 | | | | | |
Diet and exercise are slimming women and men across the board in 1st world nations.
Wha huh? I thought we were all getting fatter, or is that just after we're married?
I think we're all at risk of over generalizing, especially when you considder all of the 'specialty' porn sites springing up on the Internet. Do people in 1st world countries really get their Porn via magazines anymore?
Personally I find thin geekgrrls attractive. It's not even really anything overtly physical or sexual. To my mind a girl who is thin and pixyish with the look of a geek will be smart, something I value more than raw looks. I figure then I've at least got a chance of wooing her with my lame perl jokes ;)
-- Yeah, well, that's like, just your opinion man.
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| | | | | | 8. I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by LeighBCD | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:58am | score of 2 funny | | | | | | |
but to my knowledge, heterosexual men of my acquaintance, generally speaking, prefer bigger breasts. You never hear of a man say "oh, my girlfriend's/wife's boobs are too big".
To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads
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| | | | | | 15. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by warble | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 8:46am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 9 | | | | | |
I was watching an MTV special on breast implants and reductions a while back, and the one thing that stands out is one girl who wanted a breast reduction. She gave what I consider the best reason - that they hurt her back and put a lot of strain on her body - and then she added, "Besides, everytime I meet a guy, all they do is stare at my breasts. I want them to notice other parts of me, like my thighs and legs too, you know." (not verbatim, but pretty close)
Struck me as pretty funny considering it's all body anyways.
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| | | | | 16. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by CaptainLiberal | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 8:47am | score of 1.5 interesting | | in reply to comment 9 | | | | | |
They more than get in the way, they cause major back problems if they're large enough. I know two different girls who got breast reduction surgery, and both of them cited nearly constant back pain as their primary reason.
Of course, when you have as much as these girls had, you can get breast reduction surgery and still out-titty most of the other girls.
Every dream turns into something on a T-shirt -- Shriekback
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| | | | | 25. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by LeighBCD | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:19am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 15 | | | | | |
None of my women friends have ever complained about having breasts so huge that they needed surgery in order to reduce back strain, and I know some women with substantial busts. What is more probable is that a woman has a breast reduction for cosmetic reasons, say, after giving birth because her boobs have started to sag.
And as for this girl complaining that men were ogling her breasts, I have big news for her: it doesn't matter how big they are, if a guy is gonna check out your breasts, he is gonna check out your breasts, no matter how big or small they are. It is a fact of life and as a woman, you have to get used to it. Personally, I have found that staring at a man's crotch with a smirk of disgust on my face is a very good way to move his eyes upwards in a northerly direction.
To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads
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| | | | | 39. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by Ixbalanque | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:47am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 25 | | | | | |
Yeah, I would have to agree that it is probably a very rare occurrence when large breasts alone are the cause of back strain. But, if a woman has a bad back to begin with, carrying around D cups or larger will only aggravate the situation. They're highly variant, of course, but that would probably translate into the equivalent of carrying at least a five pound weight around ones neck. Not something I would sign up for willingly, bad back or not.
As for breast sizes, my preference would probably be a small C cup. Anything larger and they're unwieldy, anything smaller and it takes special bras to create the illusion of cleavage. That said, a C cup is definitely above average, and anything more than a mouthful is just candy, so to speak.
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music - Groucho Marx
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| | | | | 46. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by LeighBCD | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:58am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 39 | | | | | |
But, if a woman has a bad back to begin with, carrying around D cups or larger will only aggravate the situation
D cups are still relatively small compared to the natural bust size of most women these days (which is actually increasing due to better nutrition, etc) - you would need to be at least E or F before you started to suffer back trouble.
To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads
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| | | | | 57. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:12am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 46 | | | | | |
Can you cite any of that? I think the average is somewhere around a B cup. And given that the early development of breasts is often a sign of stress on the body, I tend to doubt good nutrition would lead to larger breasts.
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 58. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by LeighBCD | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:17am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 57 | | | | | |
Here is one example - it is not a particularly scientific source, I acknowledge this, but I do think a woman who has sold bras for 60 years would know a thing or two about the subject. I have heard and read of this statistic on several occasions but I cannot recall anything more specific.
To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads
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| | | | | 64. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by Ixbalanque | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:30am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 46 | | | | | |
This is a rather fascinating link: Sexual averages
Here are the relevant statistics from the above source:
Average Bust Size
The average bust line for American women is 35.9 inches (91.2 cm). The typical bra size is 34B, with the proportions of women's cup sizes breaks down to the following: A-15%, B-44%, C-28%, D-10%, while the remaining 3% are AA, AAA, DD and beyond. Interestingly, manufacturers of women's clothing agree that the average American woman's bust size has expanded in recent decades, if only by fractions of an inch, due to improved diet and birth control pills.
Within the general population, D cups are somewhat rare, while DD's and larger are pretty uncommon. Also from the above site, a bust size of 36C translates to about a pound of weight for each breast. So, I may have overestimated the weight of D cups, but nevertheless three or more pounds around ones chest can only exacerbate ones back troubles.
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music - Groucho Marx
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| | | | | 17. Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by Goldmund | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:01am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 8 | | | | | |
Who prefers smaller breasts? They're easier to handle, don't get in the way of more intimate activities, more sensitive, perkier and less likely to sag as they age.
Besides, small-breasted girls are usually thinner overall, i never have figured out why guys want a skinny girl with big tits. Besides being nearly non-existent (well, pre-op, anyways) they just look top heavy. I mean, put them in some heels and watch 'em fall forward on their faces.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind looking at big breasts, but in all my experience in dating girls that had them, I can honestly say I prefer them small. Now, legs, ass, thighs and stomach are a whole different can of worms...
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| | | | | 19. Re: Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:05am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 17 | | | | | |
I used to think I preferred smaller breasts. Then I realized that my idea of what was smaller was pretty unrealistic. I've been plenty attracted to women with genuinely small breasts, and I'm generally not very attracted to women with huge breasts. But the breasts that I find most attractive are on the large side of average.
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 41. Re: Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by b10hazrd | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:50am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 17 | | | | | |
Hear hear!
My 1st gf of over 3 years was 5'2", and had small, cute 'uns :) I find a large bosom to actually be quite a turn off in some cases. I go for small, petite, brunettes with glasses - I'm a science geek, go fig :-P
Sincerely,
Kevin Christie
crispiewm@hotmail.com
"The crowning intellectual accomplishment of the brain is the real world..."--George Miller - Psychologist
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| | | | | 61. Re: Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by lost aussie | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:25am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 17 | | | | | |
I dunno Goldmund - I'm in two minds on the Breast Size issue.
Having been out with lots a gals who had larger than average breasts, it's often turned into the "RoadRunner & Coyote Dilemma" (or "Cool! I've got my hands on them! Uh... How what do I do with 'em?"). I remember a cheeky french friend of mine saying that "anything more than a handful was clearly a waste"... and I can see his point:)
As for the Skinny+Busty concept, it's a uniquely a chimerical attempt at accomodating the cultural push for an impractical, unsustainable body shape with a strangly distorted image of femininity. Of course, the US has led the way with the old "Bigger is Better" thing, and very cavalier "Can-do" approach to Cosmetic Surgery and body modification that's becoming more and more globally acceptable.
Do nothing and become an accomplice like everyone else.
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| | | | | 149. Re: Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by miles | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 9:13am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 17 | | | | | |
Am I the only guy who thinks it's not size, it's ... shape?
With size, I "satisfice". Really small's no good - I want an acute angle at the abdomen-breast interface.
But past that, I go for shapeliness; I'm not attracted to overly pointy/droopy, and I'm most attracted to rounded/perky (and no, I'm not talking artificially spheroid.)
I think of these as pretty garden-variety preferences - basically just reflecting health and youth, while, you know, fully establishing gender identity. It's always seemed to me like size (with breasts) is way overemphasized.
this is an experiment designed to elicit an emotional response
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| | | | | 27. How do you define small breasts??? | | | | by LeighBCD | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:22am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 19 | | | | | |
What breast size would you class as "small" and what size would you class as "average"?
I suspect breast size is all in the eyes (and hands) of the beholder.
To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads
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| | | | | 31. Re: How do you define small breasts??? | | | | by Goldmund | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:29am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 27 | | | | | |
Very true. It depends on the body type/size. Small for a 5'2" girl is a small B cup while small for a 5'9" girl is a small C cup.
But when you really get down to it, I've dated girls with big breasts and small ones and many different body types and it's really hard to prefer one or the other. I just know what I like and what I've got now is a small-breasted girl.
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| | | | | 38. Re: How do you define small breasts??? | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:46am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 27 | | | | | |
I suspect most guys, like me, overestimate the size of the average breasts. The sample we base our estimations on are biased by the large breasts portrayed in the media, not just by Playboy, but by every mainstream source. That was my point in posting my experience.
When I spoke of women with small breasts to whom I had been attracted, I meant quite flat-chested. There are still plenty of women like that to whom I am attracted.
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 78. Re: Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by gparizot | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:02pm | score of 2 funny | | in reply to comment 65 | | | | | |
I like all sizes of breasts, because they tend to be attached to women.
I have some heavyweight guys around the office here to counter your claim, n29_w95. And I doubt you'd care to meet them.
"Just 'cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there" - Radiohead
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| | | | | 104. Re: Am I the only guy around here.... | | | | by nmiguy | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 1:54pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 61 | | | | | |
Someone once told my father (in reference to breast size)
"Anything more than a mouthful is wasted."
To which my father replied "Not if you know what to do with 'em."
Such wit. I sure love my dad.
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| | | | | 138. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by eduardo | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:10pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 52 | | | | | |
That's like a 16 year old's attitude towards cars. When you're young and don't have choice, you like any car that will make your friends go "hey, Gary has a car." When one gets older, and has a wider choices of vehicles to chose from... it doesn't work like that anymore.
Same with tities. I am not arguing big VS small, because both can be nice. But nice tits are nice because they're nice, not because they are tits.
J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.
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| | | | | 153. Re: I don't know about fat bottomed girls... | | | | by garymilner | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 1:58pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 138 | | | | | |
You're right, nice tits are nice because they're nice, but, it's not nice to make not nice comments about tits you're allowed to touch.
I said, "intelligent comment" not "intelligent attitude about breast size". Whatever size you like, the kind your girlfiend has ought to be called "perfectly sized and shaped" no matter if you prefer bigger or smaller.
Sure it's fine to say you want a better car, no one will get thier feelings hurt, but as a male, if you say you want to her to have better breasts it's a different story.
Find out more at Gary Milner's Weblog
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| | | | | | 18. We needed science for this? | | | | by maml | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:04am | score of 2 astute | | | | | | |
Anyone with eyes (or grabby blind people) could have told you this. And it's sad. Marilyn Monroe was a sexy woman. My girlfriend has about the same build, and she's judged by the world to be too fat because she's always compared to stick figures like this Eva Herzigova. She eats healthily and exercises moderately, her body just keeps some fat on (and that's a good thing). If she were to starve herself down enough to look like todays model's, she'd be terribly unhealthy.
I've dated a stick woman. It's not good not to have anything to grab onto, or anything that jiggles around. Plus the psychological problems that come from long term starvation are really painful.
I've blocked AI. I'm happier now.
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| | | | | | 22. I like big butts. | | | | by BatGuano | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:09am | score of 2.5 scholarly | | | | | | |
Oh my god
Becky, look at her butt
It is so big
She looks like one of those rap guys girlfriends
Who understands those rap guys
They only talk to her because she looks like a total prostitute
I mean her butt
It's just so big
I can't believe it's so round
It's just out there
I mean, it's gross
Look, she's just so black
I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung
Wanna pull up front
Cuz you notice that butt was stuffed
Deep in the jeans she's wearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh, baby I wanna get with ya
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But with that butt you got
Make Me so horny
Ooh, all of that smooth skin
You say you wanna get in my benz
Well use me use me cuz you ain't that average groupy
I've seen them dancin'
The hell with romancin'
Sweat, sweat, got it goin like a turbo vette
I'm tired of magazines
Saying flat butts are the thing
Take the average black man and ask him that
She gotta pack much back
Fellas (yeah) Fellas (yeah)
Has your girlfriend got the butt (hell yeah)
Well shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it, shake that healthy butt
Baby got back
(LA face with an Oakland booty)
I like 'em round and big
And when I'm throwin a gig
I just can't help myself
I'm actin like an animal
Now here's my scandal
I wanna get you home
And - huh, double up - huh huh
I aint talkin bout playboy
Cuz silicone parts were made for toys
I wannem real thick and juicy
So find that juicy double
Mixalot's in trouble
Beggin for a piece of that bubble
So I'm lookin' at rock videos
Watchin' these bimbos walkin like hoes
You can have them bimbos
I'll keep my women like Flo Jo
A word to the thick soul sistas
I wanna get with ya
I won't cus or hit ya
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna - huh
Til the break of dawn
I got it goin on
A lot of pimps won't like this song
Cuz them punks lie to hit it and quit it
But I'd rather stay and play
Cuz I'm long and I'm strong
And I'm down to get the friction on
So ladies (yeah), Ladies (yeah)
If you wanna roll in my Mercedes (yeah)
Then turn around
Stick it out
Even white boys got to shout
Baby got back
(LA face with an Oakland booty)
Yeah baby
When it comes to females
Cosmo and got notin to do with my selection
36-24-33
Only if she's 5'3"
So your girlfriend throws a Honda
Playin workout tapes by Fonda
But Fonda ain't got a motor in the back of her Honda
My anaconda don't want none unless you've got buns hun
You can do side bends or sit-ups, but please don't lose that butt
Some brothers wanna play that hard role
And tell you that the butt ain't gold
So they toss it and leave it
And I pull up quick to retrieve it
So cosmo says you're fat
Well I ain't down with that
Cuz your waist is small and your curves are kickin
And I'm thinkin bout stickin
To the beanpole dames in the magazines
You aint it miss thing
Give me a sista I can't resist her
Red beans and rice didn't miss her
Some knucklehead tried to dis
Cuz his girls were on my list
He had game but he chose to hit 'em
And pulled up quick to get with 'em
So ladies if the butt is round
And you wanna triple X throw down
Dial 1-900-MIXALOT and kick them nasty thoughts
Baby got back
your radio friend, Bat Guano
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| | | | | | 32. Re: I like big butts. | | | | by MandaX | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:29am | score of 1.5 funny | | in reply to comment 22 | | | | | |
But Fonda ain't got a motor in the back of her Honda
My anaconda don't want none unless you've got buns hun
Best. Rhyme. Ever.
They played that song at a friend's wedding reception a few months ago.
My husband knew all the words. Awww yeah.
I think we're going crazy, things don't even faze me.
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| | | | | 56. Re: I like big butts. | | | | by Ixbalanque | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:08am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 22 | | | | | |
Speaking of rap guys girlfriends, this study certainly wasn't derived from the strange alternate universe that rap videos are filmed in. Every time I flip through the channels and pass by MTV, there seems to be some top heavy hip hop vixen grinding on the latest rap star du jour. Now to be fair, some of the girls are bigger all over. But, by my reckoning, there sure are a disproportionate number of the aforementioned rare breed of large breasted and toothpick waisted women on the set.
On a completely different note, I'd like to ask a question. Popular culture leads me to believe that in general American men prefer large breasted women. In my personal life, though, I have found that all things equal I prefer average sized breasts over mammoth jugs. The question, I suppose, is are men inherently attracted to large breasts or does our society manufacture a desire for big hooters?
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music - Groucho Marx
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| | | | | 62. Re: I like big butts. | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:27am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 56 | | | | | |
There are certain attributes that all (heterosexual) men tend to go for, if all other variables are held constant. But different societies place different emphasis on different parts of the body. Breast size and waist size are fairly correlated. Most societies (with variation among the members) choose one or the other to focus their attention on.
Though some of his theories are crap, especially the lipstick one, Desmond Morris' work demonstrates this well. Some women in Africa stuff pillows in their jeans to make their asses look huge. Others put plates in their lips. Some women in Nepal put rings around their necks to extend their necks. In each case, a feminine attribute (often also associated with youth) is exaggerated.
That's part of what's so disturbing about our culture - we tend to want small waists AND big breasts. Our culture presents an ideal which is absolutely unattainable for almost every woman (and man, for that matter).
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 75. Kudos to BatGuano | | | | by sydneyschaefer | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 11:38am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 22 | | | | | |
This song was the first thing that sprung to mind when I read this story. OT, does anyone remember the 'News in Brief' piece from The Onion a few weeks back about 'Senator Mix-a-Lot' and his proposed legislation? I can't find it in the archive. Maybe now that Senator Lott is stepping down, Senator Mix-a-lot will be steppin up.
We keep you alive to serve this ship; row well, and live. - The Consul Arius
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| | | | | 122. Re: Kudos to BatGuano | | | | by ByeByeBaby | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 3:27pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 86 | | | | | |
Thank God Google does.
Senator Mix-A-Lot Sponsors Titties-On-Glass Legislation
WASHINGTON, DC - Seeking to stem a four-year decline in freaky Yolandas throwing they titties on U.S. glass, U.S. Sen. Mix-A-Lot (B-WA) introduced sweeping new putting-'em-on-glass legislation Tuesday.
"Now listen up, Uncle Sam /
I wanna see soul sistas pressin' that ham /
Make me say damn /
I wanna rear-end 'em /
So I'm callin' a Senate referendum /
Bounce by the ounce don't make no fun /
I'll take 'em by the ton, son," Mix-A-Lot said.
"Don't hand this bill down to no committees /
'Cause Mix don't wait on monster titties /
Note to my colleague Tom Daschle /
That if the babies be gettin' bashful /
No melons droppin' on my windshield /
So get them nudie laws repealed."
Mix-A-Lot then gave props to the authors of H.R. 1610, from which several key clauses were sampled.
"Be not afraid, people plastic on Earth / Verbal blast 'bout to burst" - Jurassic 5
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| | | | | 89. Re: I like big butts. | | | | by nme! | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:28pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 22 | | | | | |
Big Bottom, Big Bottom,
Talk about mud-flaps, my girl's got 'em.
Big Bottom drive me outta my mind,
How could I leave this...behind?
-nme!
Virgo: (Aug. 23 - Sept. 22) It's all over but the shouting, but don't worry: It's going to be great shouting.
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| | | | | | | 146. Re: Now, can science please explain... | | | | by LeighBCD | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 3:23am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 26 | | | | | |
You know, just when I think nothing can surprise me any more, something like this comes along... it is totally logical that some men would be in to this, but it honestly never occurred to me. Wow, Plastic is so educational.
To rose-lipt maidens and lightfoot lads
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| | | | | | 28. I'm not sure about the academic research. | | | | by MAYORBOB | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:23am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
But, whatever the boys at the British Medical Journal used to unstick those stuck together pages of Playboy has immediate commercial marketability!
Tending to final details.
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| | | | | | 35. womanly curves | | | | by Anonymous Idiot | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:36am | score of 1 helpful | | | | | | |
Those researches are obviously not taking into account the preferences of men here in Puerto Rico! Frankly, I think they should have pointed out that their conclusions were strongly flavored by cultural preferences. If you are beautifully bountiful and lamenting the lack of male attention you receive on the mainland, come down here- if you have a healthy rear and small breasts, you will be celebrated, worshipped, and glorified. In truth, every woman is beautiful to someone somewhere (thank god!) and we all should free ourselves of the bogus beauty norms pounded into our head by people trying to sell things.
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| | | | | | 36. An Interesting Correllation | | | | by mrwarmth | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:38am | score of 1.5 interesting | | | | | | |
I have a theory about this that may interest my fellow polymers. It seems to me that societies move from the "curvy woman" type to the "skeletal model" type the more that society is influenced by gay men. Since the skeletal model type is basically a woman with the physique of an adolescent boy, or, more pithily, Josh Hartnett with boobs. One can correllate the growth of gay rights in societies, and the openness with which gay men can influence such societies, with the replacement of the old "straight" model of the attractive woman (zaftig; pneumatic; Gypsy Rose Lee, etc.) with the anorectic, Calvin Klein vision of a beautiful woman. Since gay men are so prevalent in the world of fashion, this hardly strikes me as a coincidence.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, nor am I postulating some kind of gay conspiracy; it strikes me as logical that as gay men can express their aesthetic more influentially in society, that society will have a gayer aesthetic.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
-Niall
Where is Ratko Mladic?
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| | | | | | 50. Re: An Interesting Correllation | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:02am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 36 | | | | | |
Both tolerance as a general attitude and thinness as a general aesthetic tend to develop in affluent societies. Your causal attribution is mistaken, though the association is true.
And isn't Josh Hartnett the guy who was in Black Hawk Down? That's hardly the type being preferred by men. And if that's your idea of "skeletal," can I refer you to a book on the Adonis Complex or Bigorexia?
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 60. Re: An Interesting Correllation | | | | by mrwarmth | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:22am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 50 | | | | | |
But I'm not talking about tolerance per se, but about the influence that tolerance makes available to gay men. A subtle difference, but an important one.
Josh Hartnett is in fact quite skeletal - for a man. And he is very much what gay men seem to want. When you translate that template to women, you wind up with women who are even more skeletal, and more what straight men want.
-Niall
Where is Ratko Mladic?
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| | | | | 66. Re: An Interesting Correllation | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:39am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 60 | | | | | |
Yes, gay men have acquired greater influence, but it hasn't gone very far in determining what straight men are attracted to. You could perhaps argue that it has an influence on what straight women think straight men are attracted to, via the influence of gay men on fashion. But even there, it is limited. Consider that stereotypes of gay men, including the one's many gay men such as fashion designers give in to, are created by straight society.
I understand the distinction you are making. That's what I disagree with. It's not causal. Rather, the influence gay men have acquired has been the result of increased tolerance. And that's merely associated with changes in women's fashion.
And Josh Hartnett has extremely broad shoulders which are, in fact, hyper-masculine. Neither does he have any particular lack of musculature, though he might have less than a typical male movie star.
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 92. Re: An Interesting Correllation | | | | by swalve | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:45pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 36 | | | | | |
I knew when I read this article on CNN that someone on Plastic was going to make the gay conspiracy argument. I say this without prejudice- it's a brilliant observation and quite possibly true.
"If silence is golden, you couldn't raise a dime!"
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| | | | | 111. You Might Be On to Something | | | | by keta | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 2:30pm | score of 2 funny | | in reply to comment 36 | | | | | |
Your observation reminds me of my days guiding for salmon on the remote BC coast. Us guides were constantly having to listen to our "dudes" talk about sex, sex, sex - women, women, women. It gets to be a bit much when you're stuck in the middle of nowhere for four months with no female companionship. A friend devised an excellent way to preempt all the locker room palaver from his guests. When he was (inevitably) asked what kind of women he liked, my friend would reply, "I like really skinny women with tiny boobs and an even smaller ass. Then I screw them doggy-style and pretend they're little boys." End of discussions of a sexual nature. (Although he told me his declaration did get him some unwanted eye contact from a Seattle haberdasher.)
Yeah, I know...-1 obnoxious. So sue me.
own your words...
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| | | | | | 42. curves vs. angles | | | | by PenguinSushi | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:50am | score of 2 scholarly | | | | | | |
1.) because all men find the same body type attractive
2.) because playboy accurately reflects men's preferences
...i'm sorry, i'm not buying this. I would say that our culture may be telling us that this is the ideal, but there are those of us who choose not to go along with it quite so blindly. ...in all likelihood, playboy (or perhaps the editor's preference) is 'gravitating toward the more angular and androgynous women' and their audience is just going along with it...
...since all studies are only measures of cultural trends anyway, (and not measures of individual's characteristics) a study is only worth doing if it can say something both accurately and meaningfully about the society. I think that something like 'body type preference' is a little to vague and varied to give much of a meaningful or accurate result. You could, perhaps, conduct a study to show that x% of men surveyed liked this body type, x% liked this body type, etc, etc, etc - but to say that 'most prefer x' is going to be misleading. If such a survey has been/were to be conducted, i'm guessing it would show something slightly more varied than a study that merely focused on one media publication's interpretation of 'attractive'.
...apologies to Martin Voracek and Maryanne L Fisher, but this study isn't worth much to me.
"One Penguin To Rule Them All..."
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| | | | | | 43. Sheer Speculation | | | | by uncarved block | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:53am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Oh, my thought, not the story-- I think history has shown all too well that men will catch anything that doesn't run away fast enough.
No, I'm talking about whether or not breast implants have finally fully penetrated the male expectation of the female figure. In the past, a Mae West (big on top) always had a base (big on bottom)-- that's just the way nature works, most of the time. But thanks to technology, this is no longer the case, and discussion of the feminine ideal form has changed as well.
(How silly this all is can be demonstrated whenever a guy says something like, "Well, I don't think Elle McPherson is all that hot", when you know full well he'd be as stunned as the rest if she were actually present . . .)
Eschew Obfuscation Assiduously
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| | | | | | 53. One interesting study | | | | by Azathoth | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:05am | score of 2.5 helpful | | | | | | |
I haven't found a decent link to the research, but the results are summarized here. In short:
Although women in the United States often think men prefer a thinner woman, a study done by psychologist Paul Rozin proves differently. The women were asked to identify the ideal body type for themselves and the body type they thought men preferred. In both cases, women chose body types slimmer than average. When men were then asked to indicate the body type they are most attracted to, they typically chose the average female build. The women in this study believed that men preferred thinner women, which proved not to be true.
This study at least polled the opinions of a representative sample of men as opposed to, as plasticians have noted, the selections of Playboy editors.
We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity
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| | | | | | 90. Re: One interesting study | | | | by Mad Ogger | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:32pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 53 | | | | | |
Good link, but I think the key sentence is this:
Men do not have an evolved preference for body type, however, evolutionary psychologists claim men do have a preference for features linked with status.
These days, an athletic-shaped body, or, in Tom Wolfe's words, "boy with breasts" is linked with professional success, which is in turn one of the most important components of high status. Most men are not too fussy and will be attracted to women of many different shapes, but, they will tend to prefer a "boy with breasts", especially if they are ambitious, professional, wealthy, or egotistical.
Now, who reads Maxim? OK, that explains that. Playboy is similar to Maxim in being about a glamorous lifestyle, but it has more voluptuous models and doesn't sell as well. So they're bringing in more athletic models.
Women tend to want to have a body type associated with high status. But women have different ideas about status, so the body types don't match exactly. Before anyone gets excited, I want to point out that there is much more overlap than difference, and much more variation within each sex than between the two. Men tend to associate status with work and accomplishment. Compared to men, women put less emphasis on work and more on wealth and social success. Those things are associated with a thin body. Being really thin indicates that you've never done, and in fact could not do, manual labor. More recently, poor people tend to be fat. There has also long been an association with self-discipline.
It's not purely a question of status, though. Men's and women's bodies are becoming more similar in the US. The average woman has 2/3 the strength of the average man. But she has 1/2 the strength in her upper body, and 3/4 in her lower body. Researchers believe that is because of different patterns of exercise (e.g., more men than women dig ditches) and that the difference is breaking down. With more men working in offices and more women playing sports, the differences between men's and women's bodies in general will continue to diminish. Going out on a limb, I'd say that men and women, but especially women, will increasingly use external things, like hairstyle and clothes, to signal their sex.
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| | | | | 95. Re: One interesting study | | | | by brownianmotion | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:57pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 90 | | | | | |
It's not purely a question of status, though. >>Men's and women's bodies are becoming more similar in the US. The average woman has 2/3 the strength of the average man. But she has 1/2 the strength in her upper body, and 3/4 in her lower body. Researchers believe that is because of different patterns of exercise (e.g., more men than women dig ditches) and that the difference is breaking down. With more men working in offices and more women playing sports, the differences between men's and women's bodies in general will continue to diminish. Going out on a limb, I'd say that men and women, but especially women, will increasingly use external things, like hairstyle and clothes, to signal their sex.
sorry but
xx vs. xy sex differences code for things like bone density, red blood cell count, # of slow twitch vs. fast twitch fibers etc. (sex linked traits) therefore it has nothing to do with what types of exercises you do, unless by doing it, you increases your chance of passing on your genes AND you had more dense bones, bigger muscles etc to begin with.
sorry- but but your argument is analogous to saying if i keep cutting off the tails of rats, the rats will eventually be born without tails...
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| | | | | 112. Re: One interesting study | | | | by Lulu Lotus-Eater | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 2:31pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 95 | | | | | |
Sayeth brownianmotion:
> xx vs. xy sex differences code for things like bone density...
C'mon. Did you -read- Mad Ogger's note? Mad didn't deny their were any sex-linked traits. But phenotype isn't the immutable expression of genotype either.
A woman who exercises her upper body will have bigger biceps and more arm strength than one who doesn't. Of course the same is true of a man. And it's even true, on average, that the same amount of weight-lifting produces more upper body strength in a man (but the differences between members of the same sex are much more than the differences between sexes).
In the past, phenotypic differences have redundantly coded 23rd chromosome differences and activity differences in activity. If the activity differences decrease, the phenotypic differences decrease. Or in the eternal words of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ (the movie): "Does the word 'duh' mean anything to you?"
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| | | | | 148. Re: One interesting study | | | | by orionoir | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 8:32am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 95 | | | | | |
quote #1: With more men working in offices and more women playing sports, the differences between men's and women's bodies in general will continue to diminish. Going out on a limb, I'd say that men and women, but especially women, will increasingly use external things, like hairstyle and clothes, to signal their sex.
quote #2: sorry but
xx vs. xy sex differences code for things like bone density, red blood cell count, # of slow twitch vs. fast twitch fibers etc. (sex linked traits) therefore it has nothing to do with what types of exercises you do, unless by doing it, you increases your chance of passing on your genes AND you had more dense bones, bigger muscles etc to begin with.
sorry- but but your argument is analogous to saying if i keep cutting off the tails of rats, the rats will eventually be born without tails...
brownianmotion does a good job of refuting something, but i'm not sure it's necessarily what mad oger was saying. that is, mo's contention that differences between men's and women's bodies have diminished (and will continue to diminish) does not depend on a genetic explanation... after all, a modern human has considerable non-genetic influence over what his or her body looks like (diet, exercise, accessories.)
my generation (talkin bout 40 yo) is on average taller and stronger than my parents' generation... yet, of course, the cause is not genetic; instead, national changes in the use of childhood antibiotics and diet probably account for the bulk of the difference. similarly, virtually all measures of human performance in sport show improvement yet do not require genetic explanations.
the top female competitors these days most certainly do have different looking bodies. elite female runners by all appearances are clinically anorexic, yet they are turning in times which would have won the vast majority of olympic men's races. in tennis, too, the body types are changing... compare margaret court and evonne goolagong to the williams sister, for example. (for that matter, compare rod laver to the williams sisters... he certainly didn't hit the ball as hard.)
what happens in elite sport also happens on the larger scale of ordinary life. while we may not have access to the coaching, equipment and drugs of the pros, we still can imitate their diets and workouts.
the local newspaper here in connecticut just published its year-end survey of the top male and female high school athletes in the state, and the top football player was a nose tackle who tips the scales at 335 lbs; the top female cross-country runner was your typical pretty blonde coathanger with good muscle definition. this would seem to refute the idea of gender convergence in body types, okay, it does, but it also shows that a determined teenager has a lot of say over the kind of body with which he or she will end up. if girls decided they needed to be good nose tackles, you see some serious curves looking back at you from the newspaper... but instead, at least some part of the female population (and the male aesthetic which dogs it) is trending to the leggy, bony, prepubescent, xylophonic rib cage look of distance running.
i'm so happy i can't stop crying -- sting, fr. "lithium sunset"
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| | | | | 152. Re: ooops, typed the link wrong | | | | by Mad Ogger | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 1:32pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 151 | | | | | |
by contrast, the men... note how similar their upper bodies are to the women's, yet how their legs and torsos are more heavily muscled.
Interesting. That's just what I'd expect. Neither train their arms, so both have small arms. Both use their legs a lot, so they gain some muscle there. The men have heavier bodies, so their muscles get more training, and men gain more muscle for any given amount of training. Not sure about the torsos though.
Competitive athletes are exceptions to my previous comments, since they tend to select a sport that their body is naturally suited for and they use specialized training. There may be a bit of convergence in the types of sports being played, but athletes will always have very special body types anyway. I was talking more about average men and women, and how fewer men are manual laborers and more men and women are moderate exercisers.
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| | | | | | 63. I'm sorry. | | | | by n29_w95 | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:29am | score of 1.5 funny | | | | | | |
Eva Herzigova looks like a small burlap sack full of firewood. Back ribs are not attractive, and you might poke your eye out on her pelvis.
Is it British men that don't like curves on a woman?
---Pie is good!
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| | | | | | 136. Re: I'm sorry. | | | | by Teaflax | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 8:09pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 102 | | | | | |
she looks like a sackful of antlers
Utterly, utterly brilliant.
As for my preferences, it's about proportions and curves, not size. The sexiest part of a woman is the line from waist to hip - no transvestite can ever imitate that. The bag of antlers look is one extreme end where I draw the line and folds of overlapping fat is the other - and between that there's plenty of room for enticing and desirable variation.
Ahh, women - they surely are life's greatest joy. YMMV
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| | | | | | 67. I'm a little MORE than puzzled. | | | | by lost aussie | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 10:49am | score of 2 nuanced | | | | | | |
The article frankly flabberghasts me. This is scientific analysis??
1) It's an analysis of Playboy models in lieu of extracting data from a population of women in general. This tells us bugger all about the actual general "desirable proportions" of a given society (and these beauty norms vary somewhat from country to country).
2) Fine, do a porn based analysis. but then ask yourself; if you choose only one magazine, why choose Playboy? A magazine whose market share is reported to be dwindling year upon year?
Nowadays, there's all manner of porn for all manner of tastes, hence the fragmentation of the market, and diminution of the sales for the big fish like Playboy. Remember, Penthouse went outta business this past year!
The least Singh could have done to obtain a more realistic analysis would have been to choose a bunch of leading specialist mags (and I mean basic softcore ranging from "Barely Legal" through to "Voluptuous Women" to "Over 50's babes") and repeat his analysis but weight the data by average monthly sales figures.
I refuse to believe that we men could be so easily pigeon-holed. If we're gonna start throwing accusations of body fascism around, I say look more to women than men! Women on the whole are much harsher body critics, and on the whole have warped perceptions of what men want from them anyway - rather like that primitive notion that all women want a man with huge biceps.
Do nothing and become an accomplice like everyone else.
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| | | | | | 155. Re: I'm a little MORE than puzzled. | | | | by Atlasshrugged00 | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 9:15pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 67 | | | | | |
I'm guessing they chose P-boy because every centerfold's pertinent data is right there on the page. Height, Weight, Age, Bust, Waist, and Hips all there. P-boy has already done the measuring...all these 'scientists' have to do is collect the data from back-issues.
Sadly Hustler etc. doesn't need those numbers because most of their buyers can't read.
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| | | | | | | 74. An ex-stripper's take... | | | | by wicked_sprite | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 11:29am | score of 3.5 informative | | | | | | |
I was a dancer (as in exotic) to pay my way through college. My measurements were 36-26-36. I think that would qualify more as a Betty Page body style than a Twiggy body style. There were those elegant gazelle-like women who also worked where I did. They were those runway model, jagged cheekbone beauties and they possessed strength and poise and they moved like liquid. Gorgeous. I, however, almost always made much more money than they did, despite the fact that I was only there to pay for my English class and fumbled and bumbled and fell off the stage almost every night cuz I never could quite get the hang of those heels. Why? Well, in my opinion, I had more T&A value. I actually wore my hair like Betty Page and would dress like a 50's pin-up girl since the current fashions in those days catered more to skinny girls and I looked horrid in them.
Now, perhaps this is because when men go to strip clubs they want T&A and if I were sitting next to a Kate Moss look-alike at say, Chi-Chi's, it would be a different story. I don't know. I never really paid attention to whether I was getting hit on more than others outside of work where the goal was to make money. (To be honest, I hated my short stint as a stripper. It's not so glamorous and man, I've never met a more cynical bunch-o-women in my life. But, I digress. Sorry.) My point is that I still posses a curvy body, albeit I've slipped on a couple of inches here and there since my dancing days, but although I don't snap necks walking down the street for sure I've also never had difficulty attracting men and it's not because I'm some raving beauty; I wish. This is an interesting statistic, but it doesn't really seem to reflect real life and it certainly doesn't factor in other factors of attractiveness such as intelligence, confidence, and charm.
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| | | | | | 105. Re: An ex-stripper's take... | | | | by ignoblus | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 1:55pm | score of 1.5 astute | | in reply to comment 74 | | | | | |
I have a pet theory that strip clubs are more about the iconography of sexuality than sexuality itself. So the more attractive stripper wouldn't necessarily be the more attractive women. I think some cultural critics have commented that larger breasts always means more money in stripping, far beyond where it ceases to be more attractive in a general setting. Consider Candye Kane, who crushed coke cans (no alliteration intended) under her breasts before she became a blues singer.
Also, it is certainly true that different sections of society have different tastes. What's attractive NYC is not in Montana. The study was on cultural images in Playboy, which are probably a blend of different ideals from different sections, but not necessarily relevant to any particular region.
That said, I'm sure your explanation is largely right. But I thought I'd offer some alternatives that might flesh out (no pun intended) any explanation.
It never was that simple, and it still isn't.
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| | | | | 127. Re: An ex-stripper's take... | | | | by wicked_sprite | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 4:24pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 105 | | | | | |
I have a pet theory that strip clubs are more about the iconography of sexuality than sexuality itself.
I agree; hence the success of my Betty Page routine. The icon bit worked well.
Consider Candye Kane, who crushed coke cans (no alliteration intended) under her breasts before she became a blues singer.
It's funny you would mention Candye Kane; she sings in a little restaurant/bar down the street from where I work in Encinitas.
Also, it is certainly true that different sections of society have different tastes.
Yes, I would agree that what is considered attractive varies from region to region, and then again within social classes. I've moved a lot around the United States and have experienced that first hand. More supporting evidence that the article mentioned above is really more of a "fluff" piece meant to troll for reactions.
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| | | | | 128. I'd have tipped you:-) | | | | by Ben Bridenbaugh | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 4:27pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 74 | | | | | |
I am NOT into the "waif" style of women, it frankly seems unnatural. Also, I find being 'healthy' quite different from gross obesity. IMHO, you deserved the money because you were more beautiful and (excuse me) 'fantasy inducing' than the fashion model wanna-be's.
I think Playboy is just so big it decides what it wants. Haven't read the mag at all in the better part of a decade, but I've heard they go totally against demographics. The Kate Moss fashion industry has, or so I've heard, a quite high homosexual percentage.
Myself, I just like it when a lady is healthy and full bodied. This is probably from reading tons of "heroic fantasy" as a kid, full of muscled barbarians rescuing curvy ladies who fill their revealing attire. I don't like truly obese, but there's a LOT of room in between healthy and fat, not three bites of angel food cake.
Don't get me wrong, I don't judge ladies by looks alone. My last GF was rake thin. We dated a bit becaused we liked cats and talking to each other a lot. We parted 'cause she's really religious and I'm really not. Physical looks had nothing to do with it.
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| | | | | 137. Re: An ex-stripper's take... | | | | by eduardo | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:01pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 74 | | | | | |
The last few sentences of your post are really right on the money. Attraction is only part physical, and all kinds of people can be attractive if they have the right attitude and carry themselves sensually. Sometimes I see girls who are good looking but don't know how to carry themselves, and there's no attraction. And vice versa, there's a girl at school thats a little chunky (not too much though) but she's very graceful and sensual.
You made money because you were in character, and may be you even looked more attainable, more "real", and the guys were able to easier imagine themselves being with someone like you than with the really thin girls. You made sure that your stage persona and your body were a fit (no pun intended) and that lead to success
My friend is in pretty much the same situation as you. She's not the hottest chick in the club but she knows how to act and she says she takes home more than most the other girls.
J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.
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| | | | | | | | 83. Follow-Up Study | | | | by gparizot | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 12:10pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Since there seems to be quite a bit of controversy and disagreement among my Plastic friends here as to what makes an attractive woman, I propose to do a follow-up study, and let you know the results. Here's where you can help: I'm going to need every issue of Playboy from 1953 on up. (I think I should also have the newsstand specials as well, just to "round out" the study)
So, if you have any of the above mentioned issues (videos and or DVDs are fine, too), please send them to me, gparizot, at...
(I hope my wife thinks I'm being funny)
"Just 'cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there" - Radiohead
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| | | | | | | 96. A few points to make | | | | by swalve | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 1:00pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
1- I'd like everyone to quietly note that "average" does not necessarily equate to "ideal", "healthy" or "correct".
2- As has already been noted, Playboy is certainly NOT a scientific cross section of society. Girls in felt cowboy hats can only go so far.
3- Attraction is subjective and involves many, many things we don't even know about yet. So ultimately, who cares?
"If silence is golden, you couldn't raise a dime!"
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| | | | | | | 140. Re: Send Me Your Fatties | | | | by Teaflax | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:32pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 97 | | | | | |
Except curvy does not at all equal fat.
A curvy woman has breasts and hips and a clear waistline - it doesn't have to be a wasp waist at all, but it has to be there - otherwise, where are the curves?. A fat woman is pretty much just round all the way - rolls of fat do not qualify as curves.
Now, whatever your preference is, that's absolutely fine, but it worries me that so many of the terms that should be describing normal, healthy women - words like curvy and voluptuous - have been hijacked by the BBW crowd.
The problem with it is that once 'curvy' = 'fat', anything but rail thin is suddenly chubby, and that's just sad.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| | | | | | 98. I Just Noticed... | | | | by charlies | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 1:18pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
...that this thread is less than four hours old and has accumulated almost 100 comments.
I am a 57-year-old heterosexual male. That's just for reference.
While reading the earliest comments (the first 50) I kept thinking about the long joke about the man who was trying to decide whether to marry the hardworking executive woman or the deeply spiritual woman, or, or, or; and the punch line is that he married the one with big tits.
We can all fault the methodology of any study that relies on Playboy; my fault would be the definition of "men". When I was 14, I thought Playboy models were fascinating. By the time I was 20 I had decided public hair was okay (Remember that before about 1975 or so, P-boy centerfolds didn't have pubic hair) and the best kind of woman was the kind I woke up next to.
Then in my 30s (and after a divorce) I dated only women with--er--ample bosoms and had a lot of fun. Indeed, there are many inventive uses for large breasts. My book will be published this spring...
And then I actually became a realist, married, and have a family.
So is the study measuring anything real, or is it measuring the demographic group it used to measure?
Besides, is butt size the only variable? I seem to recall that the Playboy models with the wider bottoms also had the wider tops.
We're fighting in a war we lost before the war began.
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| | | | | | 114. Similiar Joke | | | | by Ozymandias | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 2:51pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 98 | | | | | |
The Poor Pope
As the Pope lay dying he is visited by an angel who tells him that before he dies god has commanded that he must make love to a young virgin so he may know and understand the earthly pleasures he gave up his whole life.
The Pope argues for a while but then finally agrees to do it if certain conditions are met:
"First, she must be blind so she cannot see the desecration I will perform on her body!"
"Second, she must be mute so she can never repeat the unspeakable act I will be performing on her body!"
"Third, she must be deaf so she cannot hear the unspeakable acts I will be performing on her body."
The angel writes these down and begins to float away to reports back to God.
Just before he disappears, the Pope leans forward and says, "One last thing."
"What is it," says the Angel.
The Pope whispers "She must have big tits."
I thought I heard this on a cheech and chong album as a kid, but I could not find anywhere on the internet where it was attributed to them. Anyone remember this being on a comedy record?
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| | | | | | | 133. Re: Less andro more gyn | | | | by mattegrape | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 7:12pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 106 | | | | | |
Thanks for the pics, I didn't really know who Eva was...
According to my careful observations: she is plenty hot. I would happily do her.
Another photo from the same site is a bit less flattering, and I think backs up the androgynous comments:
a www.user8.com link
Either way, since when are fashion photos supposed to be documentary evidence? I've seen demos of how they do the makeup and Photoshop work for these and these girls don't look anything like that in real life.
ciao / matte
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| | | | | 141. Re: Less andro more gyn | | | | by Teaflax | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:36pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 106 | | | | | |
if this Eva is androgynous I don't need to meet a "real women."
Exactly - all you need is a boy with tits and makeup.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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| | | | | | | 115. FRANK ZAPPA gets this one right, he always does... | | | | by Wei Ming Kai | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 2:53pm | score of 1.5 brilliant | | | | | | |
...from "SEX"
Some girls try it 'n' go on a diet
Then they worry 'cause they's too fat
Who wants t'ride on a ironin' board?
That ain't no fun...I tried me one
Grow that meat all over yer bones
Work the wall with the local jones
'N' while you do it, remember this line
The Sniffer says it all the time
"THE BIGGER THE CUSHION, THE BETTER THE PUSHIN'
THE BIGGER THE CUSHION, THE BETTER THE PUSHIN'
THE BIGGER THE CUSHION, THE BETTER THE PUSHIN'
THE BIGGER THE CUSHION..."
I hope I am the first to point out this golden nugget of Wisdom from dear departed FZ. Ponder it well you folks jabbering about breasts bigger than a handful being too large, and prefering bony little pixie girls or fashion model skeletons or Playboy models with big fake boobs and teeny little behinds - that's all fine for you and the fashion designers/magazine editors but not for me.
Playboy can roll thier magazine into a tight cylinder and then cram it. That goes for Maxim and all those womens mags that push the 'Kate Moss' and runway models are the standard for beauty and if you mortal woman should not emulate this ideal you deserve your life of neurotic self-loathing for being reubenesque or merely not 'perfect'.
There are plenty of men who prefer comfortably proportioned 'real' women, find them beautiful and blithely don't get the marketed message of the media 'beauty' archetype. IMO it's more about basis for a consumer society that exploits womens attitudes of satisfaction towards thier appearance as being inadequate or somehow loathesome and desperately in need of a torrent of cosmetic products, clothes, diet supplements, and whatever else can have a price tag slapped on it and sold to ease the bottomless ache gnawing in the heart of every woman who 'knows' she isn't perfect.
I see the Playboy & fashion archetypes and think - that represents way too much effort and obsessive vigilance for those people to keep looking that good for more than a brief period of thier lives - much better to find a lifestyle and attainable routine for being happy and healthy, tailored to the individual not the archetype to be emulated.
the intelligent, like the unintelligent, are responsive to propaganda -H.L.Mencken
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| | | | | | 116. Just one man's opinion | | | | by VootGuy | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 3:02pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Curves are good in general, whatever the proportions are. Angular is lame, chunk-o-riffic 200 pounds of fat-rolls is unhealthy, but theres a HUGE middle ground of acceptably attactive body types.
When I've been with big breasted women its been fun, when I've been with small breasted women its been fun. Breasts are just fun. Too small, perhaps, and you get into a boyishness thats not too hot.
And theres a big difference between what men look at in magazines and what men date. Most men can, I think, differentiate between real women and the women that are thrust upon us by the media (not that those women don't exist in real life).
Damn, what a ramble. Looking at the number of posts, a lot of people seem to like rambling about women.
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| | | | | | 135. Its not about sexuality | | | | by version5 | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 8:03pm | score of 1.5 nuanced | | | | | | |
I have a friend who really likes the ultra-thin model types. It confused me how he would point out anorexic looking girls and say how hot they were, until I figured out that its not really about the physical beauty so much as the cachet that one might expect to gain from dating such a woman. Kind of like buying certain expensive items, the value is based primarily on the fact that a lot of people agree that it has value. It don't understand it myself, but if you look at many men's magazines, they tend to focus on expensive, brand-name luxury items, including expensive, 'Model'-brand luxury girls.
"That is cool." - Abraham Lincoln, Cooper Union Address, 1860
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| | | | | | 159. Re: Its not about sexuality (For some of us it is) | | | | by aeschenkarnos | | | | at Sun 22 Dec 12:33am | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 135 | | | | | |
Oh poor Version5, unable to resolve a 'confusion' until you cast your 'friend' in a cruel and cynical light. Obviously you don't understand, you're making an assumption based on your difficulty realizing that people actually do find different kinds of bodies attractive. They are not, deep down, really thinking just like you are and are pretending otherwise just to be perverse. How shallow are you?
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| | | | | | 139. May be... | | | | by eduardo | | | | at Fri 20 Dec 9:31pm | score of 1.5 intriguing | | | | | | |
... men are just happy to look at some slender women in magazines after being surrounded by increasingly overweight women out in the world.
May be I am wrong about this, but I think that the "ideal" is getting slimmer and slimmer as the "average" gets fatter and fatter. It makes a certain amount of sense.
Of course it depends on who you ask. Most black guys I know still like the "thick" stuff. If I am in the right mood, I do too. Doesn't work for white women, though.
J'ai une petite amie avec des tres, tres grandes tetons.
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| | | | | | 143. quoted: | | | | by dorkgirl52 | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 12:14am | score of 1 | | | | | | |
him: eat!
me: you're just trying to fatten me up
him: yeah, in case i have to eat you during the war
me: no, it's cause the fatter i am, the more it's like doing me on a waterbed
him: no, really, i'm just trying to get rid of these bruises on my thighs
"You dont have to floss all your teeth, just the ones you want to keep."-- Schizopolis
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| | | | | | 154. thin-bottomed girls | | | | by landonair | | | | at Sat 21 Dec 4:21pm | score of 1 | | | | | | |
Even when a man and woman are ectomorphic, the differences in their body types are still as different as night and day. Thin girls may look boyish from above the breasts to the neckline, but that's about it. Their hips, legs and that lovely curve where the lower back arches out still scream FEMALE.
I think all this 'since I'm straight I like girls with CURVES, dammit, none of that anorexic boy-girl crap that the homosexualized fashion industry (because they hate women, you know) tries to push on us, no sir I like REAL women' is what most men will say just to make it perfectly clear that they are uber-hetero. The reality is EVERY MAN I KNOW finds a slim, taut female butt devestating. They're still round, they're still curvy, they're still feminine. How come no man will admit this in a civilized conversation, is it some kind of populist p.c. sentiment? Is it some paranoid fear of being percieved to be promoting anorexia? Is a thin butt just not 'soulful' enough? What?
['No, it's because they're gay and like stick women! har-har' Beat you to it shithead so don't bother]
"It's so easy to say things that are so idealistic without reasoning and thinking them out in the big picture"
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| | | | | | 160. Re: thin-bottomed girls | | | | by Norman108 | | | | at Sun 22 Dec 12:27pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 154 | | | | | |
Is it easy for you to be a jerk, or do you have to work hard at it? If you need to be a jerk, you have choices how you go about doing it.
Signed,
A gay man attracted to curvey bottomed guys and bears, as well as others, and who thinks curvey and voluptuous girls are usually very sexy.
P.S. I'm by no means alone in my attractions.
P.P.S. I've never hated women as a class, but I've always despised bigots. And guess what, most girls don't like bigots either, except for a quick fuck once in a while. Unless quick fucks are all you want out of life, you need to GROW UP.
In man's stone-dark heart there burns a fire, That burns all veils to their root and foundation. Jelauddin Rumi
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| | | | | 161. Re: thin-bottomed girls | | | | by landonair | | | | at Sun 22 Dec 2:52pm | score of 1 | | in reply to comment 160 | | | | | |
You completely misread what I said. I didn't say gay men hated women, I was sarcastically paraphrasing the attitude I've found in a lot of people, I thought it was pretty obvious. Read it again. If you still think I'm a bigot you're an idiot.
"It's so easy to say things that are so idealistic without reasoning and thinking them out in the big picture"
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